China – Traps & Scams – real life experience…

[ChinaAlleWay]

Originally Posted by Sinoview

Small scams are present in China every where... Like those selling hand phones and notebook (lap top computers). They are 100% scam. Why should they take the trouble to spend so much time trying to sell to individuals whereby there are so many "second hand" collection shops around all over China. All these are "con" job....

Just do not be "tam shim" aka greedy and mind our own business then we should be ok...

Cheers

Yo.. i totally agreed with Uncle Sinoview...
just walk away when those 'ppl' approach you. And come to think off that, its cheaper to buy in Singapore !!

Had also encounter recently that some CHina ppl said what real jade found in the south and bla bla bah.. its all bullshit...

so to all Singaporeans Expats, just beware and careful as always !!

And finally Lets welcome the Spring season ! hoho !

Brdgs
CHinaalleway

[Huzige]

One of the earliest advices given to me when I first went to China in the early 80s came from a Hongkee I met. He told me whatever project I want to get involved in China, make sure I invest enough time to check on the local partner(s), know exactly who I am dealing with before even looking at all the “nice projects” they bring to you. I believe this still hold true these days, especially with all the traps and scams like the one just experienced by brudder imkaa. And these days, there are a lot more resources available to do such background checks, including governmental and professional organizations, as well as “zhong guo tong中国通” individuals (many are samsters ) with years of experience working in China with good and reliable local connections. And local crooks are also becoming more sophisticated and professional. Still, the old adage “if it is too good to be true, usually it is not true” still holds…

[Mekatulia]

Dear all,

This might be a variation of some already existing info out there, however, I personally feel that it should be of concern to those who travel frequently in/out China, as this issue concerns personal safety and hygiene.

I received info, pics included, that some restaurants in China buys dead chicken, process it and resell it as Charcoal Roasted Chicken. Some one have caught a series of photos of the whole process, from a person on a bike going round collecting dead chicken, to the defeathering, gutting out, decolouring, then colouring again, etc... I would say it is totally disgusting.

In certain scams, you can apply generally the few following rules like

1. Cantonese rule - "There is no such big frog jumping around the street."

2. English rule - "There is no free lunch in this world." OR

3. What my finance lecturer taught me, "In the world of finance, it's always me me me first. Whatever is left over, maybe then I'll consider you."

But I thought that, it might not be easy to recognise some scams like the dead chicken sold at restuarants, because not many people really look closely unless they already have a pre-notion of what to expect. The recommended way is to check the eyes of the chicken that usually fresh chicken when cooked, the eyes are half shut, not tightly shut. Another point is the meat is white and not purplish or any other weird colour for that matter of fact.

Be very careful what you eat.

Travel safe, eat safe, bonk safe.

[PuTonRen]

Originally Posted by Faidenk

And to think that with so many posts, dedicated threads even, on the dangers dallying with the PRCs, there are still so many willingly stepping into the lion's den, blissfully ignorant of the dangers or not...

So who's the victim here?

Well said, Bro Faidenk,

How are you? Are you in Shanghai?

With your vast experience in China, you are the rich source of such real incidents that can help to educate our compatriots in China. I did learn a lot from your postings in the early Delphi - Sammyboy forum.

With best regards.


PTR

[Faidenk]

Originally Posted by PuTonRen

Well said, Bro Faidenk,

How are you? Are you in Shanghai?

With your vast experience in China, you are the rich source of such real incidents that can help to educate our compatriots in China. I did learn a lot from your postings in the early Delphi - Sammyboy forum.

PTR

It's been a long time, Bro PTR, since that lunch at OCBC. Yes, I've been in SHA since March last year. Funny I always thought it was I who has learnt a lot from you. I supposed we stop learning when we're lowered into the ground.

If you search on this thread I posted a greeting to you when I was posted here, guess you were too busy to see, not blaming you, because the post rate of this thread is really too dynamic, miss one day and you're probably several pages behind. Cheers.

[Faidenk]

Originally Posted by PuTonRen

Well said, Bro Faidenk,

How are you? Are you in Shanghai?

With your vast experience in China, you are the rich source of such real incidents that can help to educate our compatriots in China. I did learn a lot from your postings in the early Delphi - Sammyboy forum.

PTR

It's been a long time, Bro PTR, since that lunch at OCBC. Yes, I've been in SHA since March last year. Funny I always thought it was I who has learnt a lot from you. I supposed we stop learning when we're lowered into the ground.

If you search on this thread I posted a greeting to you when I was posted here, guess you were too busy to see, not blaming you, because the post rate of this thread is really too dynamic, miss one day and you're probably several pages behind. Cheers.

[PuTonRen]

Originally Posted by Faidenk

It's been a long time, Bro PTR, since that lunch at OCBC. Yes, I've been in SHA since March last year. Funny I always thought it was I who has learnt a lot from you. I supposed we stop learning when we're lowered into the ground.

If you search on this thread I posted a greeting to you when I was posted here, guess you were too busy to see, not blaming you, because the post rate of this thread is really too dynamic, miss one day and you're probably several pages behind. Cheers.

Bro Faidenk,

It was a dinner at OCBC with Wishing4U, Alantis77, you and I. I did not forget that. We were then very active in the Beijing thread in the old Delphi Sammyboy Forum then.

Please, brother, you were way ahead of me then, I was enjoying all the juicy stories and experience from you. I got my kick start from you. Thanks though.

I had read your post and PM, and replied to you already, I think in Shanghai Thread. Will be nice to catch up again.

Regards

PTR

[Faidenk]

Originally Posted by PuTonRen

Bro Faidenk,

It was a dinner at OCBC with Wishing4U, Alantis77, you and I. I did not forget that. We were then very active in the Beijing thread in the old Delphi Sammyboy Forum then.

Please, brother, you were way ahead of me then, I was enjoying all the juicy stories and experience from you. I got my kick start from you. Thanks though.

I had read your post and PM, and replied to you already, I think in Shanghai Thread. Will be nice to catch up again.

Regards

PTR

Yes, now I remember you asking me to look for SGPShanghai69 if I need help. Yes, we did make contact but still did not have opportunity to meet.

Yes, it'll be good to catch up, always nice to be seen having coffee with a celebrity, haha! Before I'm accused of hijacking the thread, I'll PM you my contact details. Will be good to meet the other Shanghai masters as well.

[PuTonRen]

Originally Posted by Faidenk

Yes, it'll be good to catch up, always nice to be seen having coffee with a celebrity, haha!

Bro Faidenk,
If the celebrity in your post refers to me (I sincerely hope not), then you are very very wrong. Don't Suan me okay? Hahahaha.....

In fact, I have not met many Samster as I always stay low, as my nick implies. Many Samster whom I met did not even know who I was as I never identified myself unless they asked. However, you were really a celebrity in the old Beijing Thread, remember. You were bringing newbies to joints and giving direction and advice to newbies like me. Remember our common friend who was in the watch business, have you seen him lately.

I shall wait for your PM.

Regards

PTR

[Faidenk]

Originally Posted by PuTonRen

Bro Faidenk,
If the celebrity in your post refers to me (I sincerely hope not), then you are very very wrong. Don't Suan me okay? Hahahaha.....

In fact, I have not met many Samster as I always stay low, as my nick implies. Many Samster whom I met did not even know who I was as I never identified myself unless they asked. However, you were really a celebrity in the old Beijing Thread, remember. You were bringing newbies to joints and giving direction and advice to newbies like me. Remember our common friend who was in the watch business, have you seen him lately.

I shall wait for your PM.

Regards

PTR

Not suaning, my friend. Everybody seems to have such high regards for you, me including...

As for me bringing newbies around, actually, there's a very selfish reason - it's cheaper having more people to split the bill, hahaha

Ahh. our friend in the watch biz. Poor guy. As a newbie, I overstayed my visa by a month and he was the one who brought me to the Immigration Dept to settle the affair. I could pay RMB2000 to settle undertable, with someone escorting me all the way to the plane, no fine, nothing; or pay RMB5K to get the proper stamp etc. I opt for the latter because I didn't want to risk running afoul of the law. Stupid me.

Anyway, he married a PRC, I'm sure you know. Despite a child, she must have been a real gold-digger. His biz collapsed. He was hospitalized when the wife stabbed him. When I last saw him at the BJ HRC, he was a half his former self, both in size and spirits. There was nothing I could do to help as it was my last few days in BJ. I heard much later everyone avoided him as he would come around to borrow a little here and there.

I have known him under better circumstances and he was a very helpful and upright guy. It couldn't have happen to a better guy.

[spoonfork]

Originally Posted by Huzige

One of the earliest advices given to me when I first went to China in the early 80s came from a Hongkee I met. He told me whatever project I want to get involved in China, make sure I invest enough time to check on the local partner(s), know exactly who I am dealing with before even looking at all the “nice projects” they bring to you. I believe this still hold true these days, especially with all the traps and scams like the one just experienced by brudder imkaa. And these days, there are a lot more resources available to do such background checks, including governmental and professional organizations, as well as “zhong guo tong中国通” individuals (many are samsters ) with years of experience working in China with good and reliable local connections. And local crooks are also becoming more sophisticated and professional. Still, the old adage “if it is too good to be true, usually it is not true” still holds…

Dear Huzige,

Would you be kind enough to explain further on “zhong guo tong中国通”? Is this an organization, website or PI service? I came across, many a times, opportunities to start projects there but then again, probably being silliporeans, we sometimes are too careful and misses out on real deals. I don't mean to stereotype our own being, but I guess we have a lot to learn.... Thanks

[Huzige]

Originally Posted by spoonfork

Dear Huzige,

Would you be kind enough to explain further on “zhong guo tong中国通”? Is this an organization, website or PI service? I came across, many a times, opportunities to start projects there but then again, probably being silliporeans, we sometimes are too careful and misses out on real deals. I don't mean to stereotype our own being, but I guess we have a lot to learn.... Thanks

When I mentioned “ZhongGuoTong中国通” I was referring to individuals from outside China who have been around China for a period of time that allow them to acquire specialized knowledge of the country (especially “unconventional” info such as unique practices not mentioned in text books,) as well as their hard-earned connections. But as we know China is such a vast country, such individuals may only be knowledgeable about specific place or industry etc, Nevertheless, many came from the “school of hand knocks” and able to share their experience and also important connections (including friends’ friends etc) gained through their years of working/living/dealing with mainland China. Many are extremely generous in sharing their knowledge and experience informally, including their postings here, e.g. PuTonRen, SGPShanghai69, Uncle Sino – to mention a few. Hey, even cheonging with such individuals mean you do not get rip off and ensuring “value-4-money” experience without compromising safety – after all, China is still a communist country despite its claim to market economy!

Of course, “ZhongGuoTong中国通” is also a very popular name used by many profit-orientated organizations/websites/etc who claim to know a lot about China and will assist for financial considerations.

Yes, we can sometimes be too prudent and missed out on opportunities. I have always joked about the fact that by the time many American companies finished their feasibility study of the projects, their Taiwanese competitors with “KKL (KaKaLai)” (although some said “LLL (LuanLuanLai)”) attitude would have already built the plants and started manufacturing! It is a delicate balance, and also a strategic choice depending on your company and industry. For example, one of my Principals accepted my proposal to identify a worthy local partner after much effort, but use the local partner (actually highly recommended by an old friend of mine) to take care of all local operations with an arm length relationship. My Principal makes lesser margin, but it has been very profitable and good working relationship for the past five years – and we (foreigners) do not have to deal with the increasingly greedy local “players/snakes” that you often cannot avoid in China. And everybody is happy because the American doesn’t tell the Chinese what to do. But of course, there is no “fit-all” solution, especially in a dynamic place like China; even the ”ZhongGuoTong中国通“ individuals need continuing engagement with the country to stay relevant.

[PuTonRen]

Originally Posted by Huzige

...Nevertheless, many came from the “school of hand knocks” and able to share their experience and also important connections (including friends’ friends etc) gained through their years of working/living/dealing with mainland China. Many are extremely generous in sharing their knowledge and experience informally, including their postings here, e.g. PuTonRen, SGPShanghai69, Uncle Sino – to mention a few. ...

Of course, “ZhongGuoTong中国通” is also a very popular name used by many profit-orientated organizations/websites/etc who claim to know a lot about China and will assist for financial considerations.

....., there is no “fit-all” solution, especially in a dynamic place like China; even the ”ZhongGuoTong中国通“ individuals need continuing engagement with the country to stay relevant.

Well said, Bro Huzige,

A very good and balanced account and explanation on the meaning of 中国通.
The last paragraph brings up an important point, "there is no "fit-all" solution". I wonder whether there is a person who can be rightfully branded as such. Although I have been in this vast country for more than a decade, I am learning everyday, from the experienced guys here and from the newbies alike. I was initially in Beijing for many years, and when I was relocated to work in Shanghai, there was a new mind-set and ways of doing business to be acquired, and acquired fast. The establishment of a network and rapports ("guan-xi") was the first thing I would do whenever I was sent to a new place (I have even been to the far west, such as Lanzhou). I remember when I was asked to setup something new in Suzhou, there was so much things to do and learn. The Jiangsu province official, Suzhou government, Industrial Parks officials ..took immense efforts and time to know and to entertain, etc.

Although I said many times that we can never be too careful, but seizing opportunity at the right time is essential. By the time one has done a feasibiity study, the business would have been up and running and managed by someone else. Many of us feel that the results that come from a feasibility studies could be obtained carefully from the right people or in general "friendly sources". Many of us took risks, after evaluating the information that helps us to "gamble". We have been taught back home, to do something, starts with procedure A, then to step B, step C.. and ....so on. There is seldome any horizontal flexibility. Once one is stuck at a step, there is no room for moving horizontally to avoid the obstacle. This is certainly not a case here.

In China, the government sets the policy and regulations. In addition, some procedures are laid down as guidelines. This is because, China is such a big city, there is no "one-fits-all" solution. Therefore, while following a procedure, people sails horizontally and legally in every step to side step the obstacle in order to achieve a certain task. This is somethings that we are not accustomed to and not taught. Personally, I feel that to survive in China in business of all kind, one must learn to sail through obstacles. If we were to follow strict procedures, we would be in for some trouble.

Brother Huzige said that some of us are from "Hand-Knocks" school, in fact, I would say that we came from the "Hard-Knocks" school. Many of us have failed many times, but we learnt, stood up and go forwards again. Something that we need to learn to survive here is "How to take failure as a learning experience". I personally feel that our society does not tolerate failure. This is indeed to our disadvantage. We should have the spirit of a "不倒翁“- Fall down but recover to remain upright again, not only while working in China, but everywhere. To me, this is the essential element of survivabiliy.

My 2 cent worth. Note that the above are only my personal and humble opinion. I hope I have not offended anyone. If I do, please be assured that it was not intentional. It is only a matter of opinion.

Sorry for the long post from this old man at advanced age.

My humble 2 cent worth to share with all brothers in this fantastic forum

Regards

PTR

[PuTonRen]

Sorry, post deleted, do not know why my posting appeared twice.

Apology for wasting the bandwidth

[oakleyeug]

Frankly speaking u have to hand it to the people who open the way for all of us Singaporeans in China, to name a few of the Singaporeans that have started business in China.

UOB
I think no need to introduce this man, heard a few stories abt him. Based in China for more than 10 years, believed those bros based in Southern China and have been attending Sin-Mal meeting in Shangrali-La.

IE (Singapore)
Met these great guys 3 weeks ago, pretty impressive and know how to handle people. Anyway these are goverment people.

Speedytech (Singapore)
Guys remember me? Haha...

So many people here have learnt through exprience, for once I seriously felt that without all those who cheong head how are we in the future going to cheong in China?

I was first introduced to China in 2004, ever since I only returned to Singapore 6 times till today (yupzz miss Singapore). I have a few old birds here telling me if u want to stay here u have to bland in here.

I drank, I smoke and I even had good food all the way but after 1 year I realized that I miss my mom porridge back home. Just me or is it everyone?

China scams are pretty easy cause it makes use of some silly people living out there in the world, I heard some Singaporeans come here damn confient end up goin home with stacks of paper (fail liao). Some come here know how to survive, bribe, drink, smoke and play these people survive real big time here.

I have met with a lot of scam here in China and all I can say is we r lucky cause it is still a small time scam, some people I have met got cheated up to millions in China.

I appeal to all please watch and see properly before u thread into any path, even the wisest old birds here sometimes still fall into the traps and scams.

Oak