Liverpool Fc @ Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings

[hawksbay]

Originally Posted by KingEros

IMHO, it goes without saying that Gerrard was the man-of-the-match.
But, both Kewell & Benayoun were splendidly making the flanks their own ... with the good old overlapping support from both Riise & Aberloa of course.

As for Babel being the inspirational substitution, I'm not so sure ... I just dun think it can be seen in the same light like those made against Porto a few nights ago.
Afterall, the Reds were already leading 3-0 & comfortably running circles round Megson's foot soldiers by then ... if anything, it was actually Kuyt's powerful shot that led to the simple tap-in presented to Babel - remember, this was not anoter Robinson howler but a fully-stretched Jaaskelainen tipping the ball from heading into the goal.

wat inspirational sub u talking abt we were 3-0 up n to bring on sumone like babel shows the depth in the squad,yes he missed frm 6yds so did torres.as for the goal he scored he was at the right plc to compare him with torres is unfair cos this boy cld give us something different in approach.i never mentinoned it was a inspirational substituion.

[sex crusader]

Luckily that'expert' did not say hyppia's goal was a fluke too.

[KingEros]

Originally Posted by sex crusader

Can't you read?

Originally Posted by sex crusader

Agreed! I 'm suprised that someone talk so much about Liverpool has turned on a blind eye whenever torres misses.

Originally Posted by sex crusader

Luckily that 'expert' did not say hyppia's goal was a fluke too.

Damned ... there now exist a belief that YNWA means hiding behind others' asses to beef up his own arguments??
Why can't he just put forth his own stand ... when his own argument is being justifiably challenged??
But, then again ... what could really be expected from the authentic noise-maker??

[KingEros]

LUCKY, LUCKY LIVERPOOL?
Paul Tomkins 03 December 2007

Liverpool must be the luckiest team in the country. After all, every comprehensive victory this season has been against opposition subsequently labelled as 'rubbish'.

Why are Liverpool playing only 'rubbish' teams, when Arsenal and Manchester United beat only good teams with their 'sparkling' football?

Toulouse were beaten 4-0; but they were rubbish. Derby were beaten 6-0; but they were rubbish. Besiktas were beaten 8-0; but they were rubbish. You see the pattern. Also rubbish were Porto, Newcastle and Bolton.

To read the majority of press reports, Liverpool have not once been excellent this season –– often it's about how bad the opposition were. It's been "Liverpool played fairly well, but they didn't need to be great to beat ...”.

It's funny, but Liverpool are developing a nice habit of giving teams a bit of a pasting this season. Perhaps it could just be that Benítez's side is consistently making the opposition look bad?

Many seem to miss the point about one of Benítez's greatest strengths: namely that he's very good at planning to nullify the opposition, from which point his team can play their football.

He has often been criticised for paying too much attention to the opposition’s strengths and weaknesses, and not just sticking to his own team's strengths, but this is his way; and over the years, it's worked very impressively on the whole. It doesn't mean it will never backfire here or there, but then even the 'same every week' Reds teams of yore never won every game.

Knowledge is power, and Benítez makes sure he knows the opposition. With rotation, he also makes sure the opposition does not know what Liverpool they will be facing, which has great benefits, particularly if they are planning on stopping the Reds playing. Liverpool are never predictable, and that's a trait that should be celebrated and not, as is mostly the case, criticised.

The counter argument is that, as a result, Benítez's own players don't know each other well enough. But that's where training comes in, and the many hours spent each day working together at Melwood. It's not like the players just meet up on match-day, arriving as virtual strangers.

The criticisms of rotation have been conspicuous by their absence of late, with 21 goals scored in five games to none in reply, despite four and five changes in most of these games; only the Fulham game saw an unchanged team, and it was 0-0 until that line-up was altered with three substitutions, on the way to a 2-0 victory.

And, of course, when it comes to playing only 'rubbish' opposition, there's the fact that any Benítez team, at its best, does not allow the other side to settle for one moment on the ball, as we first saw five years ago.

Let's not forget, Liverpool hadn't suddenly become a really bad side in November 2002, but that's what Benítez's Valencia made them look. In all my years as a regular at Anfield, they were the side that impressed me the most, in that they appeared as this amazing collective –– eleven men in total unison, attacking and defending as a team; hunting in packs, attacking in clusters.

Visiting this weekend was a Bolton team unbeaten under Gary Megson, which had drawn away at Bayern Munich and last week beaten Manchester United at home. But of course, I'm forgetting something: they're rubbish.

All season long, the Reds have not had too many fixtures against teams in disarray –– at least not before the game, anyway. (A few have ended the game that way.) A shell-shocked, Mourinho-less Chelsea stumbed about in a daze at Old Trafford, but they had a 100% record, and their Portuguese boss, when they pitched up at Anfield.

Liverpool went to Blackburn when Rovers were in a long winning-run. Arsenal were unbeaten in all competitions and on a run of 12 wins in a row. Portsmouth had already got a good result at home to Man United, and had started the campaign well, as had Everton. Sunderland had that early-season zest to their play in August, and Wigan, now in the relegation zone, were in the top-half of the table at the time.

Besiktas were an experienced Champions League team who had just beaten the Reds, while Toulouse were from one of the top-five European leagues. Porto had conceded only four league goals all season before the Reds put as many past their 'rubbish' defence last week.

Only Derby were really there for the taking, and taken-apart they were. Newcastle away, even after their previous home defeat, is never an easy fixture, but the Reds started so brightly they forced the home crowd to turn against their own.

Spurs and Birmingham remain the only league results that should definitely have been better, while those games coincided with a min-slump that also included Besitkas away and Marseilles at home in the Champions League. Even then, the Besiktas fans made their home arena a tough place to visit.

All top teams have a slump (or two) at some stage of the season, but the timing is often the crucial factor.

In terms of the league, the autumn shortfall, while frustrating, hasn't been too detrimental to the campaign. The Reds are in a great position, and averaging more than two points per game, with the joint-best goal difference, suggesting that things are right at both ends of the pitch.

But it proved more costly in Europe –– lose form between December and February, or have a poor August (as United did) and you have no such worries; the same cannot be said when you have a difficult September or October.

However, playing like this, the Reds can get a result in Marseilles next week, with the French team faced with that awkward mindset of needing only a draw. I always like games where the Reds have to win, as the intensity is rarely absent in the play.

[KingEros]

Collectively Benítez's side is clicking, and individuals are also finding their best form.

Steven Gerrard's form has been improving game-by-game for some weeks now. Sunday's game was the captain at about as good as he gets: winning tackles, bursting forward, and with his pass to Torres he recalled the days when he had Michael Owen as a willing runner for his 50-yard slide-rule through-balls. (Except, or course, Torres is an even better forward, with more skill and a greater physical presence, as well as a great capacity to work hard for the team.)

One area where Gerrard has been a little inconsistent in the past is in his set-piece deliveries, given the quality he possesses in that right boot.

But in the last three games the Reds have scored from three of his corners and a free-kick delivered into the box, as well as an indirect free-kick struck ferociously against Newcastle, followed by two penalties. The shape on his deliveries into the box, and the pace when whipping in the ball is perfect right now, allowing players like Crouch and Hyypia the advantage when attacking them.

Gerrard is also a good penalty taker, but he's never been up there with Matt Le Tissier, who missed only one from 49 attempts, or Jan Molby, who notched 42 from 45. His overall record is a little better than two scored out of every three.

However, he's striking some unstoppable ones right now, to either side of the keeper, and after a start to the season where the Reds couldn't win a penalty for love nor money (purely a saying, I hasten to add) and yet could concede them for merely looking at an opponent, it helps towards getting three points.

Another bonus against Bolton came from the substitutes, which is a growing trend this season. Jack Hobbs is progressing nicely, and he enjoyed an assured league debut when replacing Jamie Carragher.

I hate it when I see people suggesting throwing in the youngsters as there's "nothing to lose". There are games to lose and, if the kid in question is not yet ready, there's his confidence –– and, subsequently, his career at Liverpool –– to lose, too. Managers know when the time is right; they work with these players every day. They monitor their development to the nth degree.

Equally, I hate seeing youngsters instantly written off after a bad display. I couldn't believe some of the stuff that was said about Hobbs not being good enough when he struggled in pre-season a couple of years back ... at the age of 17!

Along with goalkeeper, centre-back is the position where it's hardest for youngsters, because so much of the role is about learning from experience and from not making any errors. A teenage Michael Owen could miss three sitters but if he scored a goal, it was job done; a teenage Jamie Carragher only had to make one or two mistakes in a game to see his credentials doubted.

And while it's harder to get the ball past the goalkeeper and into that small area between the posts than it is to get the ball out of harm's way (in that you can boot the ball pretty much anywhere), if a forward mis-controls the ball there's no harm done; if a centre-back does so, it can quickly lead to disaster.

Sami Hyppia was rejected by a number of English clubs in his early twenties, including Oldham. Hyypia, who has been around so long it feels like he was also born in the early '20s, is currently showing that, even with zero pace, the accumulation of experience, and how it adds to the art of positioning, can keep you at the top-level at an age when most forwards have long-since retired.

In Carragher, Agger and Hyypia, Hobbs has some excellent colleagues to learn from, and from what I've seen he has some of the qualities of each. He has Hyypia's height, Carragher's determination and leadership skills, and some of Agger's quality on the ball. It's early days, but he has the potential to one day be up there with his illustrious elders. And at this stage of his career, that's the best anyone can expect.

Elsewhere, Ryan Babel, at just 20, is looking less like a prospect and more like someone who's nearly ready to take the league by storm, while Lucas, also 20, is settling very nicely into the midfield. And I don't think that Emiliano Insua, who made his league debut last season aged 17, is that far away from pushing for a place in the first-team squad. And that's not even mentioning some of the youngsters doing so well out on loan.

It seems that, at long last, the Reds have some top-quality youngsters capable of gracing the team for years to come.

When you consider that Torres and Mascherano are just 23, Agger and Sissoko are still only 22, and the plethora of top Premiership players in their mid-20s (Reina, Alonso, Arbeloa, Crouch, Gerrard and Benayoun, to name just a few), any current optimism should stretch well beyond the end of this season.

[KingEros]

Latest odds:

Manure as BPL champs this summer
$2.00 >> $3.60 >> $2.25 >> $2.70

Chelsea as BPL champs this summer
$2.25 >> $5.50 >> $8.00 >> $5.50

Liverpool as BPL champs this summer
$6.00 >> $2.60 >> $7.50 >> $5.00

Arsenal as BPL champs this summer
$13.00 >> $6.20 >> $1.98

Man City as BPL champs this summer
$180.00 >> $40.00 >> $60.00 ... worth a $50 investment?

[sex crusader]

I guessed the ego is just too high when being challenged.Instead posting some irrelevant news to spam this thread.Just give your so called 'expert' reply on those misses by torres even on close range.

[rahl]

Originally Posted by sex crusader

I guessed the ego is just too high when being challenged.Instead posting some irrelevant news to spam this thread.Just give your so called 'expert' reply on those misses by torres even on close range.

I'm not sure if you are trying to criticise Torres (which is fine) or debunk King as an 'expert' on LFC/football. If you read his post on the 20-goal striker, King was saying something totally different about Torres, that he is a complete striker. Of course Torres misses easy chances (and so does Rooney) but he is impossible to defend (unlike Mickey).

I have no doubt about King as an expert on LFC. Of course I have also no doubt he is blinkered and biased in some of his views. Has he said anything unbecoming of a Pool fan? I don't think so.

[ProfessorOokami]

Originally Posted by rahl

I'm not sure if you are trying to criticise Torres (which is fine) or debunk King as an 'expert' on LFC/football. If you read his post on the 20-goal striker, King was saying something totally different about Torres, that he is a complete striker. Of course Torres misses easy chances (and so does Rooney) but he is impossible to defend (unlike Mickey).

I have no doubt about King as an expert on LFC. Of course I have also no doubt he is blinkered and biased in some of his views. Has he said anything unbecoming of a Pool fan? I don't think so.

I beg to differ....opinions are still opinions unless scientifically proven to be otherwise, thats why you see so many conflicts noways or even from the begining of civilizations, had been mainly caused by "difference in opinions". Anyone may offer or express his opinions based on his viewpoints. There are at least 6 sides of a coin depending on what perspective you are viewing it. For instance, I often feel that Momo Sisoko had been far from being satisfactory while playing for Liverpool, yet there have been many "expert" opinions that had said otherwise. I dont argue with them as they do have their ways in evaluating him, so their opinion counts, just like some many be willing to buy certain goods and some will rather die than to buy them.

Soory to have quoted him: But, then again ... what could really be expected from the authentic noise-maker??
was rather over-the-line, for whoever had been branded as such. Certainly the word "authentic noise maker" may not go down well with many.

If in a mere expression of "opinions" based on subjectiveness, then everyone's opionion is VALID to a certain degree unless proven wrong. Can those experts prove them wrong objectively, I am afraid it is rather futile.

[KingEros]

Originally Posted by ProfessorOokami

Sorry to have quoted him: But, then again ... what could really be expected from the authentic noise-maker??
was rather over-the-line, for whoever had been branded as such. Certainly the word "authentic noise maker" may not go down well with many.

Please take the context of the whole issue into consideration (see quotes below for details).
1) there was only one (THE) authentic noise-maker I was referring to ... so whereabout did the issue of "may not go down well with many" come from??
2) after reading through the quotes from below, dun you agree that there was nothing more than just noise from this authentic noise-maker??

Originally Posted by sex crusader

Yes... babel has the same killer instinct as torres. Both were magnificent in that game.

Originally Posted by KingEros

You sure you know what you are saying?
Did you not see Babel miss that other sitter from 6 yards?
To me, his only instinct is to whack the ball as hard as he can, not unlike a certain Mr Cisse ... on the other hand, Torres would have the instinct to place the ball to where the lobang is, so much like a certain Mr Fowler.

Right now, it is not exactly the number of goals from Torres that turns me on ... but the type of goals he can score - left foot, right foot, headers, venomous shots, deft touches ... totally unpredictable, how to defend??

Originally Posted by sex crusader

Can't you read?

Originally Posted by KingEros

Damned ... there now exist a belief that YNWA means hiding behind others' asses to beef up his own arguments??
Why can't he just put forth his own stand ... when his own argument is being justifiably challenged??
But, then again ... what could really be expected from the authentic noise-maker??

See my point now?

Originally Posted by ProfessorOokami

If in a mere expression of "opinions" based on subjectiveness, then everyone's opionion is VALID to a certain degree unless proven wrong. Can those experts prove them wrong objectively, I am afraid it is rather futile.

Sure, to a certain extent, you have your point ... that's why I also shut up WHENEVER others counter with an alternative argument which I may have missed totally.
On the other hand, if I voice out this particular opinion: "Nor Alam Shah should be the next 20m-pound striker that Rafa must buy" ... would you sit back & let this beautiful day just pass us by??

[rahl]

Originally Posted by ProfessorOokami

I beg to differ....opinions are still opinions unless scientifically proven to be otherwise, thats why you see so many conflicts noways or even from the begining of civilizations, had been mainly caused by "difference in opinions". Anyone may offer or express his opinions based on his viewpoints. There are at least 6 sides of a coin depending on what perspective you are viewing it. For instance, I often feel that Momo Sisoko had been far from being satisfactory while playing for Liverpool, yet there have been many "expert" opinions that had said otherwise. I dont argue with them as they do have their ways in evaluating him, so their opinion counts, just like some many be willing to buy certain goods and some will rather die than to buy them.

Prof, no need to start a treatise on opinions heheh. If you read my posts, you will find that I share an aversion to ill-formed and populist opinions.

If sex crusader was offended by King's off hand remark about 'noise', he should just say so rather than go tit for tat. I didn't notice that remark to be honest but I agree with King's observations about Torres and Babel from a footballing perspective. Mind you, I don't always agree with him (see Mickey comments heheh).

[sex crusader]

I do agree with you and prof. on individual opinion. But to pin down other's opinion and passing remarks just because others got different view point would view as ............well? If you read my post, i have never criticised Torres but rather MOMO.This guy will pin whoever down if one choose to express opinion that differ from his.If some of the suppporters chose to support Babel, that's their right.Who is this 'King' fellow to tell ppl otherwise?

[ProfessorOokami]

Yeah, we shouldn't be bothered too much by others' opinions. In this region, perhaps due to our cultural backgrounds and upbringing, we are, usually as norm, quite diffident in expressing "unacceptance" to remarks [then again, it is the opinions of others playing havoc] that one has deemed to be offensive. According to my sociology-based research on such acceptance or rejection, many Asians [it maybe truncated, as my studies were done on a comparative study on ethnic Thais as compared to the Japanese] would exhibit a tendency to go for tit-for-tat activities in order to hide their rightful outward expressions of disapproval to some remarks that they deemed as not correct and offensive. They may use ways and means to show defiance, spread malicious rumours, send out poison letters, and even sabotaging your job....but will never stand up aganist such opinions.

Rarely an Asian [maybe I am guilty of stereotyping] will stand out and say: "I am not amused with what you had said...may I know why did you say that? Can you retract the remark if it is wrong?" There you are...with this, there ends all animosities with a clearer exchange of opinions and view points. One thing about the Japanese, aside from their heirachial obedience, they do value all sorts of opinions [eventhough they may sound silly]. Afterall, a "silly" opinion from a cleaner lady helped to solve AJINOMOTO's sales problems, and the Swiss's watch manufacturers' rejection of a "silly" invention using quartz to time the watches had made the Japanese watch maker CITIZEN capturing a sizeable market share by adopting the "silly" opinion that quartz could be used to time watches!

Afterall, even betting is based on one's own opinion until the outcome proved likewise or otherwise. Some predicted Liverpool to beat Bolton by 2-0, some said 3-0, some said 4-0....then everyone's opinion had been valid until the final whistle!

Anyway it is healthy to express opinions and listen to other's opinions too. You never know its validity until the final whistle. At my age, the final whistle in my life is not far away....

Hey...lets get back to football and sex dont play play ah..

[hawksbay]

Originally Posted by ProfessorOokami

Yeah, we shouldn't be bothered too much by others' opinions. In this region, perhaps due to our cultural backgrounds and upbringing, we are, usually as norm, quite diffident in expressing "unacceptance" to remarks [then again, it is the opinions of others playing havoc] that one has deemed to be offensive. According to my sociology-based research on such acceptance or rejection, many Asians [it maybe truncated, as my studies were done on a comparative study on ethnic Thais as compared to the Japanese] would exhibit a tendency to go for tit-for-tat activities in order to hide their rightful outward expressions of disapproval to some remarks that they deemed as not correct and offensive. They may use ways and means to show defiance, spread malicious rumours, send out poison letters, and even sabotaging your job....but will never stand up aganist such opinions.

Rarely an Asian [maybe I am guilty of stereotyping] will stand out and say: "I am not amused with what you had said...may I know why did you say that? Can you retract the remark if it is wrong?" There you are...with this, there ends all animosities with a clearer exchange of opinions and view points. One thing about the Japanese, aside from their heirachial obedience, they do value all sorts of opinions [eventhough they may sound silly]. Afterall, a "silly" opinion from a cleaner lady helped to solve AJINOMOTO's sales problems, and the Swiss's watch manufacturers' rejection of a "silly" invention using quartz to time the watches had made the Japanese watch maker CITIZEN capturing a sizeable market share by adopting the "silly" opinion that quartz could be used to time watches!

Afterall, even betting is based on one's own opinion until the outcome proved likewise or otherwise. Some predicted Liverpool to beat Bolton by 2-0, some said 3-0, some said 4-0....then everyone's opinion had been valid until the final whistle!

Anyway it is healthy to express opinions and listen to other's opinions too. You never know its validity until the final whistle. At my age, the final whistle in my life is not far away....

Hey...lets get back to football and sex dont play play ah..

yes prof, lets get to football and sex

[lls8]

Eversince Torres arrived at Liverpool in the summer, the game that Liverpool played seemed to be very entertaining. The way Torres dummied the defenders, run at defenders, when he runs with the ball, is just a beauty to watch. I just love the way he scored goals. Torres seldom hits with power when he scored goals. It is more like placing the balls. I had keep watching his past 11 goals again & again. It is just a beauty to watch his score. Most goals he scored is a real beauty.

His first goal for Liverpool against Chelsea and his last goal against Bolton, had quite similar effect, both thru a long & accurate pass from Gerrard. The first goal against Chelsea Torres scored from the right side of opponent goal, after beating Israelis defender. The last goal against Bolton, Torres scored from the left of opponent goal post. Both are beautiful pass that are accurate & defence splitting pass from captain marvel.

Steven Gerrard performance, since beating Besiktas is breathtaking. His passes r very effective, his freekicks is very dangerous and penalty is so assured. Last time I never had confidence in Gerrard penalty kick. Now is so good, full of confidence. Always sends the goalkeeper to a wrong side. Dun know why suddenly he become so good in penalty kicks n free kicks that resulted in some goals. Even his corner kicks will also results in goals.

Another player that is a beauty to watch is Ryan Babel. I enjoyed watching his at left or right wings, which he usually switch to suit the opponents.His run with the ball on his feet against defenders is always breathtaking. Two of the goals he scored is really mesmerizing. I remember the goals against Derby County and another against Besiktas (with a toe-flick with his back facing the keeper). While Babel dun seem very effective wen on starting line-up till now, but his performance is really good as a substitute in the last 30 mins. Think he scored many goals as substitute.

While most Liverpool players played well this season, the above 3 players deserves special mention, bcos it is so enjoyable to watch them play as an individual player in the strong Liverpoll line-up. Somehow, the only set-back recently is that, I observed that senior players like Riise and Momo Sisoko performance had not been effective recently...off-form?? The same with Kuyt & Veronin as well. Luckily Torres & Crouch r on fire now.

Next game i look forward to is against Mersailes and follow-up with a clash on Dec16 agsint ManUtd. These two games I will NOT miss even if I have to miss work the following day. On the same day Chelsea will play Arsenal. Mouth watering game ahead. Hope Liverpool wins but Arsenal & Chelsea draw...

You'll Never Walk Alone....