Should i buy a 3 rm resale with my father?

[cokekane]

Things has not been going well in life for me..28yo this year with a thai gf, monthly income only 2.5k before cpf

Father has "abandon" me since i was 15 and i have been moving, staying around with my relatives like soccer ball.. move here and there since 15 till now, i don't really like the idea of renting out cus very expensive, so i thick skin abit stay with relatives

Recently father divorce with his latest girl and just sold his flat and came to me say want buy a 3 rm resale with me. I was happy about it cus after so long i can finally have my own roof over my head and with my name in the hdb i can maybe get my thai gf a long term visa easily.

Relationship has never always been great between me and my dad.. since young i have despited him for not giving me an actual roof over me, just throw me one side only.. and always go find mistress before he divorce with my mum.. wasnt home all the time..

once a few years back i had been chased out by one drug addicted relative i asked if i can go stay with him and his new wife he say need to ask wife first, after that it was a no... very sad to hear that.. instead he got me a roof at my granduncle place, the place is very rundown.. i bobian have to put up with it..

things turned sour after that, cus granduncle dont usually turn on lights at night cus he wanna save electricity.. i offered to pay for electricity but he dont want my money.. i also feel paiseh to turn on lights if he didnt accept my money also.. after that i moved out after another relative from my mum side offered me a place to stay.

Now back to present day.. father recently just divorced with the girl and ask me to buy flat with me.. i am happy cus can get my own roof after so many years of putting up with other people..... i can also get a long term visa for my gf easier now! but then again, my relationship with him isnt always the best...

Recently got one viewing... he bought his new gf along with us.. and he goes something along that "when we view the flat, i must like, you must like, aunty must also like" i was like... what the fuck? Why must she like? I didnt even ask my gf if she likes or not...

Viewing time got to know that i cant use all my cpf to pay cus the flat dont last me till i am 95yo.... called up cpf they say can but need to pay cash monthly if wanna use finish my cpf... i told my dad this is not feasible plan.. what if one day he pass away and i have to tank his share as well if i have a family of my own?

He turns to me and scold me asked, what do i mean by that? Says i mean he has to pay finish the loan before he die for me.. wtf? I didnt mean that... he twisted my words...

Next

his bday, he told me the new gf daughter bought him dinner to repay him cus he gave her 1k to helped her out with her financial difficulty period.. another wtf moment as he nvr gave me a single cent before, his money his problem, i also dont gian his money as i have my own too.. i am just dissapointed how come he can treat other people daughter so nicely but treat his own son like dirt.. many of the ad hoc things i did for him he never see with in his eyes...

I am really at lost here, is there anyone that managed to read finish till here able to tell me if i should buy or dont buy with him

Gf was telling me to buy
real life friends some say buy some say dont buy, wait till 35 years old buy own flat...

I really wanna tio this week toto first prize and get my own place...

[cunnin]

Go ahead...

[iluvbreast]

Assuming what you posted is true, then I would say forget it...your old man seems to getting you to buy (with him) out of desperation.

3-RM flat, means 2 bedrooms and you mentioned that his latest gf has a daughter? If after buying, the gf ask your father to give a room to her daughter? Where are you going to stay?

Furthermore, next time when your old pass on, do you think he will give his share of the flat to you? Or you have buy over at market price then from his gf then?

I thought there is some HDB scheme for non-citizen spouse? you don't qualify?

[cokekane]

Assuming what you posted is true, then I would say forget it...your old man seems to getting you to buy (with him) out of desperation.

3-RM flat, means 2 bedrooms and you mentioned that his latest gf has a daughter? If after buying, the gf ask your father to give a room to her daughter? Where are you going to stay?

Furthermore, next time when your old pass on, do you think he will give his share of the flat to you? Or you have buy over at market price then from his gf then?

I thought there is some HDB scheme for non-citizen spouse? you don't qualify?

This current gf got her own hdb, just bought recently.. so i dont think my dad able to give her his share if he die. she no room sleep cus masterbed room gave her 2 daughters sleep and common room gave her father sleep. She sleeping living room now and basically waiting for my me and my da to buy so she can move in and stay with us..

I have check the non-citizen spouse alr, seems like i am only able to buy resale and not bto... at this rate if i dont buy, is it better i raise a kid in thai better? While i work in sg... at least i got one relative she still dote me alot, i can move in and stay with her

[iluvbreast]

This current gf got her own hdb, just bought recently.. so i dont think my dad able to give her his share if he die. she no room sleep cus masterbed room gave her 2 daughters sleep and common room gave her father sleep. She sleeping living room now and basically waiting for my me and my da to buy so she can move in and stay with us..

I have check the non-citizen spouse alr, seems like i am only able to buy resale and not bto... at this rate if i dont buy, is it better i raise a kid in thai better? While i work in sg... at least i got one relative she still dote me alot, i can move in and stay with her

I will correct you, whether the gf got her own HDB or not, is independent of what your father will do when he pass on. The only thing is the gf cannot own 2 HDB, so what she can is, sell off your father's share (after taking over), which means you have to sell off the flat then.

Alternatively, she can transfer the ownership of her flat to her daughters and retain your father's share.

Yes, you have to buy resale flat this time round, but what is stopping you to sell it off later on, to buy a BTO when your gf (then wife) obtains PR? Everyone can loan HDB twice, it is just your first loan is for resale.

[cokekane]

I will correct you, whether the gf got her own HDB or not, is independent of what your father will do when he pass on. The only thing is the gf cannot own 2 HDB, so what she can is, sell off your father's share (after taking over), which means you have to sell off the flat then.

Alternatively, she can transfer the ownership of her flat to her daughters and retain your father's share.

Yes, you have to buy resale flat this time round, but what is stopping you to sell it off later on, to buy a BTO when your gf (then wife) obtains PR? Everyone can loan HDB twice, it is just your first loan is for resale.

If u put it like that, knowing my father.. i'm pretty sure he will do this..

Selling away the flat next time will be at a lost for sure... end up i will lugi...

If the gf not married to him, he can pass down to her? I didnt know about this

[iluvbreast]

Ah boy, yes you can, all your old man needs to do is to write a will stating he will bestow his assets to whoever he wants after he pass on then it is done. Marriage or not is not a deciding factor.

There is no law that say someone cannot leave his assets to you if you are not related.

[cokekane]

Ah boy, yes you can, all your old man needs to do is to write a will stating he will bestow his assets to whoever he wants after he pass on then it is done. Marriage or not is not a deciding factor.

There is no law that say someone cannot leave his assets to you if you are not related.

I see.. thank you so much... i think i know what i need to do now

[iluvbreast]

Don't worry about it, you asked nicely so I am happy to share whatever little knowledge I have.

[pearlnjewel]

TS it sounds like a no from me. You should not buy the Hdb with your dad. all signs tells me that there will be a lot of trouble after you move in together. You will regret your decision.

Buy resale hdb with your girlfriend instead, under non citizen spouse scheme. But both of you must get married. If not there will be a lot of trouble if you want to take out your name later on which you and your dad bought together. Your father unable to service the loan etc and you paying for a roof for him and his gf.

It will then be difficult to kick them out later on

[ramon]

Dear TS, from your description of your dad, please run road far away from him. He is just using you for his own desires and you still have a long way to live. Your life don’t need someone like him.

[flufly]

Wait for a few more years and you can buy your own 3-room. Maybe HDB will change its rule soon and allow 30 year old to buy?

[fallen11]

This current gf got her own hdb, just bought recently.. so i dont think my dad able to give her his share if he die. she no room sleep cus masterbed room gave her 2 daughters sleep and common room gave her father sleep. She sleeping living room now and basically waiting for my me and my da to buy so she can move in and stay with us..

I have check the non-citizen spouse alr, seems like i am only able to buy resale and not bto... at this rate if i dont buy, is it better i raise a kid in thai better? While i work in sg... at least i got one relative she still dote me alot, i can move in and stay with her

Bro.
My answer to you is simply: NO
Dont buy it with him.
When your dad gone, he most likely will leave his share to the gf. Even if not, maybe the gf's daughters. Unless you make joint tenancy, which the other owner being you will automatically inherit his share when he's gone.
ya maybe he didnt care for you. But thats his own life and your own life now.
Now he's simply just trying to make use of you.
I tell you la if you share something with the wrong person, life will become hell for you. Be it property, joint bank account, investment, business, etc.
Never share it with the wrong person.

I give a nightmare scenario, if he turns out to be the wrong person to buy a flat with:

1. His gf whole family move in and live together while renting out (or even sell off) the gf flat and dont share any proceeds with you while you continue to pay for this flat.

2. He lock you out. Just need buy a new lock and dont let you have the keys. Dont say not possible. It happens often to couples, why not dad & son? At most you can only call police come, say you are owner also and have right to enter the flat. Police only will talk and talk ask you two to go solve your own family issue, etc etc. Next day you come home after work he lock you out again. Rinse & repeat, wasting 2-3 hours every night for this drama. Even if you can take such abuse, what about your wife?

3. Since your experience with your dad is like non existent anymore, how you ever thought if he would do something funny to your wife? Filming.... touching..... rape. Even fathers can do that to own daughters nowadays, what about a daughter in law which he doesnt feel to have a relation to? How much do you know him?

4. Next time you have baby how? Hows your dad like? Doesnt sound like he's some good man (sorry). Your baby cry & cry in the middle of every night, waking up the whole house. Will your dad be that understanding enough to endure all of it?

rather just buy your own resale flat. No such problems / threats.

[pearlnjewel]

Marriage or housing with a wrong person will implicate the whole family. Even if you must continue to rent you should not have anything to do with this dad who wasnt really there for you. BIG WARNING TO YOU ALREADY! DONT BUY HDB WITH YOUR DAD! Buying property with your dad will implicate you tremendously and may even make you lose a big fortune.

[Xgenre]

I say buy. Your father has no money to fully pay for the house on his own. So he needs you in to stretch the loan into affordable monthly instalments. He also realised he has no chance to get a 2 room flat bto if he has used up his 2 chances at subsidised housing. No one else he can own a house with. With you using your cpf, the monthly cash instalments are more affordable when it is split between the two of you. Just buy under Joint ownership so that he has no option to Will away his share.

Right now, you are moving around with relatives. Living out of other people's kindness, I think you are better off owning a flat despite all the potential problems you may face. Your father is just horny and wants face in front of his auntie gfs. Just play along. Soon, he will be old and penniless.. Which auntie wants him then?

So what if there is a loan when he passes on? He will be contributing to the initial down payment and on-going monthly instalment right? You can always rent out his room to earn a rental income which can be used to pay off the mortgage. Older flats tend to be located in better locations. Somehow I think the area is circuit road or toa payoh.

As for your Thai gf, gfs come and go. Unless there are plans to marry within 1 year, don't need to factor in their views lah.

[Triple70]

Yr dad does not sound like the rational type or someone that tresures the relationship with you. For your own peace of mind, do not get involved with him. HDB flats are very long commitments.

[TenSanYi]

Imagine fighting everyday for small stuffs with your father? Negative force will bring you down further and even affect your work & health.

I have seen many people getting poorer and poorer, not because they are lazy but simply the stress from families and NOK pull them down. These people eventually lose their job and start blaming governments but not themselves on their poor decision making.

You know your father is fuck up and you still want to live with him and his gf? is as good as shooting yourself in the foot or ah tiongs saying "No zuo no die why you try? 不作不死"

[nkyc]

TS, thanks for sharing this. I personally feel ur father is making use of you... Ultimately he will have to choose between u or his gf... Frm the way he has abandoned you before i think very very likely he will choose his gf... You have the right to reject your dad, but the reason sld be because u need to protect yourself. If you're thinking of buying the property with ur dad maybe can talk to a relative whom u trust? Someone in the family that can help u if all goes south between u and ur dad.

[iluvbreast]

I say buy. Your father has no money to fully pay for the house on his own. So he needs you in to stretch the loan into affordable monthly instalments. He also realised he has no chance to get a 2 room flat bto if he has used up his 2 chances at subsidised housing. No one else he can own a house with. With you using your cpf, the monthly cash instalments are more affordable when it is split between the two of you. Just buy under Joint ownership so that he has no option to Will away his share.

Right now, you are moving around with relatives. Living out of other people's kindness, I think you are better off owning a flat despite all the potential problems you may face. Your father is just horny and wants face in front of his auntie gfs. Just play along. Soon, he will be old and penniless.. Which auntie wants him then?

So what if there is a loan when he passes on? He will be contributing to the initial down payment and on-going monthly instalment right? You can always rent out his room to earn a rental income which can be used to pay off the mortgage. Older flats tend to be located in better locations. Somehow I think the area is circuit road or toa payoh.

As for your Thai gf, gfs come and go. Unless there are plans to marry within 1 year, don't need to factor in their views lah.

Just to add on, I think what you mean is the manner of holding the flat, meaning TS and his father should be getting the flat under a 'Joint Tenancy' in which the ownership of the flat is automatically transfer to the surviving co-owner.

All fair and good, the key point is father of TS must agree to it, if not it don't work.

The other thing is there is a way to get round this. In the event, the father marry his latest gf, he then can transfer his ownership to his new wife while still alive. It can be done, and I have seen it happened.

TS then will have to be contend living with his new stepmother...

[iluvbreast]

TS mentioned the "potential" step mom already got HDB liao. :)

So one way to faster get a flat is still just "borrowing" his father name on paper only. He must "seduce" his father with the idea that father no need pay a single cent but the flat "verbally agreed" is belong to to TS 100%. And TS must ensure the whole purchase and subsequent instalment is 100% pay by TS only. :)

Then during the signing for the purchase the HDB officer will ask TS choose Joint Tenancy or Tenancy in common. That one TS really need to think hard the pros and cons. :)

if TS need to use his father CPF or money or father need to help pay the instalment then complicate a bit liao.

Yes and no bro funboi, the potential stepmother have her own 3-rm flat, according to TS her father and daughters are staying in the 2 bedrooms. There is nothing to stop her from transferring her flat to her daughters and ask for the share belonging to TS's father. That is even if TS's father agreed initially to go under 'joint tenancy'.

If you read the first post of TS, I think he expect his old man to pay for part of the flat, remember when I suggested for him to get a resale flat under the non-citizen spouse scheme, he said it was not worth buying?

So I don't think the timing is not significant to him but the cost is.

From what I see, the only pro with buying with his old man is lesser cost for TS and con? Maybe next time the potential stepmother will live in the flat (even after her husband died) and if TS wants to upgrade or rent out his room? Forget it.

[cokekane]

hi guys, was busy the last few days and didnt have time to login and check the responses. really appreciated the responses from u guys

i was reading thru some replies and i realised i forgot to add in some points

1.) my dad will be paying all of the cash extras, i am only paying with CPF ONLY

2.) should there be any situation (eg. big fall out with father) few years down the road and if i decide to move out (let's say we are under joint tenant scheme), is it possible to withdraw out my name along with my cpf to buy another flat together with my wife next time? (foreign spouse scheme as mentioned by fellow samster here)

3.) after reading all the replies here, i'll be going with joint tenant instead of tenant-in-common.

[cokekane]

3. Since your experience with your dad is like non existent anymore, how you ever thought if he would do something funny to your wife? Filming.... touching..... rape. Even fathers can do that to own daughters nowadays, what about a daughter in law which he doesnt feel to have a relation to? How much do you know him?

4. Next time you have baby how? Hows your dad like? Doesnt sound like he's some good man (sorry). Your baby cry & cry in the middle of every night, waking up the whole house. Will your dad be that understanding enough to endure all of it?

yes bro i also worry about point 3 and 4. point 3 mostly as my wife-to-be will be home the whole day and my dad only work night time... wife-to-be told me she know what to do as i ever shared this thought with her before.

[fallen11]

yes bro i also worry about point 3 and 4. point 3 mostly as my wife-to-be will be home the whole day and my dad only work night time... wife-to-be told me she know what to do as i ever shared this thought with her before.

I dont know how much you know or trust your dad.
But never share something important like property, with someone you cant trust. If it eventually turns out fine, its because you were lucky.
Dont leave such things to luck.

[Triple70]

No such thing as withdraw name from HDB. Yr dad must buy out your share at the minimum amt of " CPF used + accrued interest"

If dad not on talking terms... even getting a worst case HDB rental flat is going to be a very interesting conversation with the HDB officer.

[Bizsta]

Things has not been going well in life for me..28yo this year with a thai gf, monthly income only 2.5k before cpf

Father has "abandon" me since i was 15 and i have been moving, staying around with my relatives like soccer ball.. move here and there since 15 till now, i don't really like the idea of renting out cus very expensive, so i thick skin abit stay with relatives

Recently father divorce with his latest girl and just sold his flat and came to me say want buy a 3 rm resale with me. I was happy about it cus after so long i can finally have my own roof over my head and with my name in the hdb i can maybe get my thai gf a long term visa easily.

Relationship has never always been great between me and my dad.. since young i have despited him for not giving me an actual roof over me, just throw me one side only.. and always go find mistress before he divorce with my mum.. wasnt home all the time..

once a few years back i had been chased out by one drug addicted relative i asked if i can go stay with him and his new wife he say need to ask wife first, after that it was a no... very sad to hear that.. instead he got me a roof at my granduncle place, the place is very rundown.. i bobian have to put up with it..

things turned sour after that, cus granduncle dont usually turn on lights at night cus he wanna save electricity.. i offered to pay for electricity but he dont want my money.. i also feel paiseh to turn on lights if he didnt accept my money also.. after that i moved out after another relative from my mum side offered me a place to stay.

Now back to present day.. father recently just divorced with the girl and ask me to buy flat with me.. i am happy cus can get my own roof after so many years of putting up with other people..... i can also get a long term visa for my gf easier now! but then again, my relationship with him isnt always the best...

Recently got one viewing... he bought his new gf along with us.. and he goes something along that "when we view the flat, i must like, you must like, aunty must also like" i was like... what the fuck? Why must she like? I didnt even ask my gf if she likes or not...

Viewing time got to know that i cant use all my cpf to pay cus the flat dont last me till i am 95yo.... called up cpf they say can but need to pay cash monthly if wanna use finish my cpf... i told my dad this is not feasible plan.. what if one day he pass away and i have to tank his share as well if i have a family of my own?

He turns to me and scold me asked, what do i mean by that? Says i mean he has to pay finish the loan before he die for me.. wtf? I didnt mean that... he twisted my words...

Next

his bday, he told me the new gf daughter bought him dinner to repay him cus he gave her 1k to helped her out with her financial difficulty period.. another wtf moment as he nvr gave me a single cent before, his money his problem, i also dont gian his money as i have my own too.. i am just dissapointed how come he can treat other people daughter so nicely but treat his own son like dirt.. many of the ad hoc things i did for him he never see with in his eyes...

I am really at lost here, is there anyone that managed to read finish till here able to tell me if i should buy or dont buy with him

Gf was telling me to buy
real life friends some say buy some say dont buy, wait till 35 years old buy own flat...

I really wanna tio this week toto first prize and get my own place...
Think better to register your marriage here,and if get a child register here as Singapore citizen then no problem applying under non-citizens spouse scheme if u still under 35,years old,better get your own I can forsee many problems if you buy jointly with your old man

[iluvbreast]

i edit a bit.

My understanding is.
1. TS and his father no HDB thats why wana buy one.
2. TS father GF have HDB and the gf have daughter.

So if lets say the father GF wana transfer her HDB to her daughter? Also must see 1.if the daughter old enough or not mah to complete the transfer. Also must see 2.if the daughter alone can finance it unless its fully paid liao esp. if CPF is involved. Or the father GF HDB 3.originally also just use the mother name on paper only and the daughter alone is 100% financing it.

IF lets say TS really buy the HDB with father liao under co-payment/instalment under JT or even TIC. The only way the father GF can ask for a share of that NEWLY purchase HDB while everyone is alive, the first condition is for her to confirm she can remove her name from her existing HDB first.

To ask for TS father share of the HDB also not so straight forward cuz any add/change in ownership must go through both TS and his father approval then can happen especially under JT.

Its same sale of the HDB, without both approval, also no easy way to add the father GF name into the flat.



If they bring the matter to court also no guarantee the father GF (married liao) confirm can add her name into the NEWLY purchased HDB. Unless TS father keng say he is unemployed and unable to pay the initial agreed monthly share of his instalment. Ah` then thats different story liao.

But then cuz its JT so TS can jiak the the father instalment % over and say actually no need to add new name into it one. But if the father stop paying it then TS will siong lah but then TS can counter a court case saying nvm since cannot settle right? FINE! SELL THE HDB AWAY! 55555 你可以初一？我也可以十五！you dare to add her name in, I also dare not to pay my share of the instalment. Ask the father and his new wife buy over or open market sell sua!!!! 5555 come worst leh sell back to HDB each go own ways liao.

Anything that can settle by law and court is easy lah. Difficult is pah si buay zao? 请神容易送神难

My understanding is a little different from yours bro. It happened to someone I knew, what happened was the father wanted to safeguard the interest of his new wife.
In the event he passed on, his son can kick his stepmother out after taking over the complete ownership, that was the argument presented. Of course the circumstances was not exactly the same as TS.

But I agreed 请神容易送神难, I mean TS is not exactly having a easy life then why add more problems?

[cokekane]

You need to define cash extras in details. e.g. initial fees etc in cash, will not use his CPF at all during the signing of HDB and subsequently NO instalment by him.

Alternatively, you stick with your father for the 3rm flat first till you married and with your wife name when she can work in sg or together buy HDB with you. Then you convince him sell the flat and go for BTO with your wife. From 3rm resale sold convert to 4rm BTO should be just nice especially with the financing part.

Then you tell your dad he's welcome to stay with you as occupier status.

cash as in the COV for the resale flat we gonna buy, add in my CPF and his and also including our loan.

as mentioned in one of my previous replies, i cannot use all my CPF to pay for the flat as resale flats are too old to last me till i'm 95yo.. so if i insist to use finish my CPF for this flat's payment, i can't use CPF to pay for the monthly loan payment, have to use cash.

so my father say got 2 options. first, we buy down first thn pay by cash (all he settle, i no need pay) thn go MP appeal see can use CPF or not. if die die cannot thn he say he will settle all the monthly loan payment till his last breath. after that, i'll carry the burden

also a good point bro funboi, i was also thinking of using this flat as a tool for me to get my wife-to-be a PR first after that buy a 4rm BTO with the sales profit of the resales. i think should be able to convince him

[cokekane]

My understanding is a little different from yours bro. It happened to someone I knew, what happened was the father wanted to safeguard the interest of his new wife.
In the event he passed on, his son can kick his stepmother out after taking over the complete ownership, that was the argument presented. Of course the circumstances was not exactly the same as TS.

But I agreed 请神容易送神难, I mean TS is not exactly having a easy life then why add more problems?

ya i get the what u guys mean, stating the worst case scenario and all.. but i guess i really bobian..

cant be staying with relatives till im 35 (not sure if im able to get the BTO Queue too) to get my own flat.. living out of their kindness.. somemore they very old already.. donno can last till when

[cokekane]

Do you know how much CPF your dad have? :confused:

Ya, why lei?:confused:

[Bullshitlar]

Save your money, just bum around other people house for as cheap as possibleuntil u reach 35 to buy your own hdb

[tantom]

definitely no