14-year-old jumps to his death after unaccompanied police interrogation for Molest [Archive]

kuasimi

31-01-2016, 08:55 PM

14-year-old jumps to his death after unaccompanied police interrogation

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/01/14-year-old-jumps-to-his-death-after-unaccompanied-police-interrogation/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/%5Btoc-news%5D-%93you-say-i-am-guilty-i%92m-guilty-then-%94-boy-told-mom-b4-he-committed-suicide-5293405.html

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/edusave-702x336.jpg

Benjamin Lim receiving his edusave award from MP Irene Ng. (Permission to post Benjamin's photo given by his parents.)

By Terry Xu on January 31, 2016 Social Justice

Fourteen-year-old Benjamin Lim Jun Hui was found dead late Tuesday. He had apparently jumped off a ledge outside his 14th-floor flat in Yishun. Family and friends are still trying to make sense of the boy’s unexpected demise.

Five plainclothes police officers showed up at Benjamin’s school on Tuesday morning. He was taken away for questioning for allegedly outraging the modesty of an 11-year-old girl. Police shared that an anonymous neighbour had filed a report against Benjamin. On Monday, the 25th of January, he had allegedly followed the girl into a lift at a block of flats nearby, and molested her. Police also said that they had visited the school “to establish the identity of a student who was captured on closed-circuit television footage at the lift lobby of an HDB block”.

Benjamin was taken to the Ang Mo Kio Police Division Headquarters where he was interviewed for more than three hours by the police, before being released on a $2,000 bail. Shortly after returning home with his mother and sister, he locked himself in his room and jumped out the window. He did not leave a note. Police has classified the case as an unnatural death.

In a statement issued on Wednesday, the Singapore Police Force said that Benjamin’s mother had been informed and updated on the status of the investigations at various stages. They added that Benjamin had cooperated fully with the investigation before being released at around 2.50 pm on Tuesday.

TOC approached Benjamin’s family to find out more about the circumstances behind his death.

Five-plainclothes police officers picked Benjamin up from school during school hours

Benjamin’s mother, Mdm Teng, said she received a call from her son’s handphone on Tuesday morning. A police officer informed her that Benjamin was assisting in an investigation of a case of molestation, and told her to pick him up from the police station at around 3pm.

Mdm Teng said she then asked to speak with her son. According to her, Benjamin told her during the conversation that he did not commit the alleged offence. But before he could continue any further, the phone was taken away by the police officer.

Family denied access to teen

Mdm Teng said she asked the same police officer if she could go to the school to see her son. However, she was told it was not necessary for her to do so. Instead, she was instructed to wait for police to call her. The officer then hung up.

Immediately after the police officer hung up on her, Mdm Teng and her daughter went to Benjamin’s school hoping to find out what was going on. When they arrived, they were shocked to discover that Benjamin had already been taken away by police. He was not accompanied by anyone from the school.

According to Mdm Teng, no one at the school could tell her what was going on. The Discipline Master was only able to give her vague details about Benjamin being accused of molestation.

At about 1pm, the police called Benjamin’s home again and told Mdm Teng that her son had been arrested for molestation.

Mdm Teng and her daughter then made their way to the Ang Mo Kio Police Division Headquarters and requested to see Benjamin. However, the request was denied.

According to Mdm Teng, she waited for about half an hour at the reception area before a police inspector asked her to follow him. She was then brought to an interview room where a Chinese-speaking officer questioned her about Benjamin’s conduct and grades at school.

“I was puzzled why they brought me to be interviewed instead of bringing me to see my son,” Mdm Teng told TOC.

The interviewing officer then told her Benjamin had confessed to commiting a crime, and that the offence had been captured on CCTV footage. Mdm Teng said she told the officer she could not believe her son would do such a thing and requested to see the CCTV footage. She said the police told her, “This is the police’s investigation, not your investigation.”

Benjamin was released at about 2.50pm. Neither he nor Mdm Teng received a copy of their police statement.

“You say I am guilty, I’m guilty then.”

The SPF noted on Wednesday that Benjamin had not “exhibited any signs of being unduly distressed” throughout his two-hour engagement with them.

However, Mdm Teng told TOC that her son was not his usual self following his release. His hands were freezing cold and he hardly spoke. Benjamin’s sister added that he appeared somewhat “stunned”. She also queried the police’s assessment of her brother’s state of mind. “How can the police prove that Ah Hui (Benjamin) did not show any sign of being duly distressed?”

While waiting for the train at the MRT station, Mdm Teng asked Benjamin if he had indeed molested the girl. Benjamin told her he had not.

She then asked him, “Why then did you confess?”

According to Mdm Teng, this was what Benjamin said: “You say I am guilty, I’m guilty then.”

Mdm Teng said she told her son that he should not have admitted to the crime if he did not do it.

Before she could continue, the train came and they had to stop their conversation.

Locked himself in his room

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/packedbag-650x459.jpg

Benjamin’s packed bag for the school camp

Prior to the police interrogation, Benjamin had been looking forward to attending a school camp. But shortly after returning home, a school counsellor called Mdm Teng to inform her that it was not appropriate for her son to attend the camp. He was told to stay at home instead. Mdm Teng said she was not able to discuss the issue further with the counsellor, who hung up promptly after delivering the message.

Mdm Teng said Benjamin showed no visible signs of emotion when she informed him of the school’s decision.

When Mdm Teng last saw Benjamin, he was playing with his handphone. A little later, she discovered that his bedroom door, which was normally kept open, was closed. Sensing that something was amiss, she used a spare key to get into the room. Benjamin was nowhere to be seen.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/fan-650x449.jpg

The table fan that Benjamin removed to access the window, The opened window in the background is assumed to be the one he climbed out of.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/ledge_HDB-650x410.jpg

The ledge that Benjamin might have stood and jumped off.

The window was open, and a table fan that once sat on Benjamin’s table was on the floor. Fearing the worst, Mdm Teng rushed to the ground floor. She cried as she told TOC what she saw next: her son’s body lying motionless on the ground.

Mdm Teng said that police were already on site when she arrived downstairs. They tried to stop her from going near Benjamin, but she insisted on seeing him.

kuasimi

31-01-2016, 08:57 PM

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/jumpspot-650x448.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/
The area in which Benjamin’s body was found.

Well-liked student in school and a loved child at home

Benjamin’s father said his son was a thoughtful young man who understood that his family was not financially well-off, and had been working part-time at McDonald’s to help lighten their burden.

His mother said he was well-liked by his co-workers.

“Many of the aunties there praised him for being a helpful and friendly boy,” she recalled with a smile and tears in her eyes. “They congratulated me for having such a good son.”

Benjamin was also popular with his peers. Friends from the National Police Cadet Corps (NPCC) attended his wake and gave his family a special tribute to their departed friend.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/notes-650x309.jpg

Messages of praise for Benjamin from his friends.

They also presented Benjamin with his sergeant rank.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/tribute-650x421.jpg

Tribute from family and friends laid across Benjamin’s bed.

The school’s reaction

When TOC visited Northview Secondary School, the vice-principal declined to be interviewed and sent two staff members to receive our questions. We have yet to receive any answers.

The New Paper, however, managed to speak to the principal. This is what he said:

“When the plainclothes police officers came to the school, we were discreet in bringing the student to the office to meet with the police.”

The New Paper also reported that the principal ensured that the boy was able to finish his meal before being taken to the police station.

Despite the report, questions remain. Benjamin’s father told TOC he hoped the boy wasn’t summoned to the principal’s office via the school’s PA system. According to Mr Lim, his son had also not finished lunch when he was called. He was only allowed to return to the canteen with a counsellor, after visiting the principal’s office.

It was reported that only one plainclothes officer was allowed to talk to Benjamin, in the presence of the vice-principal and discipline master.

Mr Lim expressed disappointment over the response by the school authorities. He told TOC the principal did not share any information about what transpired between the police and his son at school, neither did the school explain the decision to exclude Benjamin from the school camp.

Mdm Teng told TOC she believed that news of the school not letting Benjamin attend the camp must have contributed to his decision to jump. She said it was the last thing the boy heard before locking himself in his room.

Disappointing response by the police

Mr Lim said he asked the police numerous questions, but their standard reply was, “No comment.”

“They are very arrogant and irresponsible,” he told TOC.

According to Mr Lim, police called him three days after Benjamin’s passing, asking for a meeting at the Ang Mo Kio Police Division Headquarters. He said he declined because he did not want to see them at the place where his son was interrogated.

Mdm Teng said she had asked to see the police officer who interviewed her son. “Only he would know what happened,” she said.

It is unlikely the interview was recorded. Outrage of modesty is not a seizable offence under Singapore law unless the alleged perpertrator is caught in the act.

“My son died a very unjustified death,” exclaimed Mr Lim. “Why couldn’t they have waited until school was over? Why couldn’t they have waited till his parents were around?”

“My son died with his eyes open,” Mdm Teng added. Mr Lim had earlier told media that a priest had tried to close his son’s eyes but they kept reopening.

When asked if the family would take action against the police, Mr Lim said, “My family is not so well-to-do so we do not know how far we can pursue the case. But although we are poor, we have our dignity.”

TOC has sent queries to the SPF and will provide updates in the event of a response.

NOTE: TOC has received permission from the parents to share the photo of Benjamin. Benjamin is 14 years old and considered a minor, but what protection do minor’s have, especially in such a case where one has so tragically died under such problematic circumstances?

If the authorities are concerned with protecting minors, the police should consider whether its policies related to the arrest of minors (below age of 16) are appropriate, and in compliance with the UN Convention to the Rights of the Child (CRC), Section 40, 2(b) that Singapore is a signatory to.

Helplines
■Samaritans of Singapore (SOS) – 1800-221-4444
■National Family Service Centre – 1800-838-0100
■Singapore Association for Mental Health – 1800-283-7019
■Care Corner Mandarin Counselling Centre – 1800-353-5800
■Touchline (Touch Youth Service) – 1800-377-2252
■Tinkle Friend: Children – 1800-274-4788 on weekdays

kuasimi

31-01-2016, 09:00 PM

Children handcuffed by police at Katong

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2014/12/children-handcuffed-by-police-at-katong/

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Children-handcuffed-487x650.jpg

A photo showing 3 kids being handcuffed by 4 policemen was shared by Shan Ang on facebook. The incident captured by her took place at 9.15 am at 112 Katong, the junction of Joo Chiat Road and East Coast Road.

Ms Ang wrote in her post,

“I just saw 3 very young kids under hand cuff. Pains my heart that the police handcuff young kids like 6 yr old.

Can’t they just put them into police car n not handcuff them in public?

Two older kids like 8 or 9 years old are made to walk towards the police station with handcuffed!”

Ms Ang added that she does not know what crime the kids have committed.

It is said that the children were waiting at the spot with 3 policemen and were handcuffed when 3 other policemen arrived at the scene.

The two older kids were made to walk across the road while handcuffed towards police station taking around 10 mins while the youngest boy was seated in the police car.

The SPF wrote in response to question posed on its facebook fanpage on the incident saying,

“Police received a call on 27 December 2014 at about 8.09am requesting for assistance at a building along East Coast Road. Upon Police’s arrival, it was established that a case of Theft from Person had occurred. Three male subjects were arrested in relation to the case. The subjects were handcuffed for the safety of them and others as they had attempted to escape before Police’s arrival. Police investigations are ongoing.”

It is also stated that the three juveniles are aged between 9 and 12 years old.

Speaking to a former policeman, he said that the police generally would not handcuff individuals if they are under the age of 7 but there is a caveat based on the need to restrain – e.g. violent behavior exhibited by the individual.

So while the act of handcuffing children can be morally criticised, but still legally sound as the policemen could say that they had justification.

Questions have been sent to the Singapore Police Force on this incident and will be published when they respond.

kuasimi

31-01-2016, 09:05 PM

Reexamine the role of school counsellors in criminal investigation of students

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/01/reexamine-the-role-of-school-counsellors-in-criminal-investigation-of-students/

Below is a letter submitted to TOC

By Chen Yi Quan

Under the Children and Young Persons Act it is stated that the act exists to:

provide for the welfare, care, protection and rehabilitation of children and young persons who are in need of such care, protection or rehabilitation, to regulate homes for children and young persons and to consolidate the law relating to children and young persons.

The suicide of the 14-year-old student immediately after his interrogation by the police on accusations of molest of another 11-year-old child calls into question the protocols in place in schools in the event of police detention. Why isn’t the school counselor at hand to provide the critical pastoral care for the young student?

As a parent myself, my heart goes out to the family of this young man, and it is my expressed view that nothing less than a state inquiry be conducted to bring to light the chain of events leading to his unfortunate suicide so as to facilitate safeguards pertaining to the psychological well-being of young persons in the event of police investigation work in future.

kuasimi

31-01-2016, 09:07 PM

CAN: Special safe guards needed for criminal cases involving minors

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/01/can-special-safe-guards-needed-for-criminal-cases-involving-minors/

Singapore based NGO, Community Action Network (CAN) has issued a statement to voice its concern over the death of 14-year-old, Benjamin Lim who died of “unnatural causes” on Tuesday late afternoon after being interviewed by the police without the accompaniment of his parents.

Below is their statement in full

Community Action Network (CAN) would like to highlight the fact that as a signatory to the Convention of the Rights of the Child (CRC), Singapore should amend the Child and Young Persons Act (CYPA) to reflect the country’s ratification of the CRC, especially where the defined age of the child is concerned.

It is also clear that we need to implement special safe guards in place for criminal cases involving minors to ensure that those who find themselves assisting with the police in an investigation as a suspect, do not feel intimidated under any circumstances which may lead to trauma.

CAN is of the opinion that the tragic incident involving Benjamin Lim Jun Hui, a 14-year-old who died of “unnatural causes” on Tuesday, could have been prevented had everyone involved in the investigation of this case showed sensitivity towards the fact that they were investigating a minor.

Last but not least, we find it absurd that while public spaces are heavily surveilled with security cameras, interrogation rooms are not fitted with any cameras to allow for transparency of the interrogation process, which may be useful in an incident like this.

Endorsees: Shelley Thio, Roy Ngerng, Jennifer Teo, Woon Tien Wei, Rachel Zeng, Lynn Lee, and Jolovan Wham from Community Action Network together with individual endorsees, Vincent Law and Jevon Ng

The Community Action Network is a Non Governmental Organisation (NGO) based in Singapore concerned about freedom of expression, and civil and political rights.

Background of the case – The secondary three student was taken to the police station for investigation by five plainclothes police officers from his school on Tuesday morning and was interviewed for over 3 hours. Benjamin had been alleged to have molested an 11-year-old girl on Monday afternoon which he denies. Shortly after returning home with his mother and sister from the police station, he locked himself in his room and jumped out the window. (read more)

sadfa

31-01-2016, 09:08 PM

Knn I thought Sam deleted your posts n ban you?
Why you're back?

kuasimi

31-01-2016, 09:12 PM

Knn I thought Sam deleted your posts n ban you?
Why you're back?

Maybe Social Justice is bulletproof? :confused:

ComplainKing

31-01-2016, 10:10 PM

Maybe Social Justice is bulletproof? :confused:

Welcome back . Now that parliament is in session please help to compilie how many MPs did not attend the session.

Also recently the Honourable Transport Minister said that the frequent MRT breakdowns are an engineering problem. So the engineers are the ones to solve the problem.

Just a suggestion please at least do all your postings in 1 thread .

sadfa

31-01-2016, 10:39 PM

Welcome back . Now that parliament is in session please help to compilie how many MPs did not attend the session.

Just a suggestion please at least do all your postings in 1 thread .

What in yr experience of kuasimi makes u think he capable of doing this?? Kaozzzz....

sadfa

31-01-2016, 11:16 PM

Maybe Social Justice is bulletproof? :confused:

I see spf no up just like I see your posts no up.
Knn after you come back, still copy n paste?
Where's your cb analysis???

Knn and they send 5 men after a 14 yr old kid.
Where were these heroes during the little India riots?
When they go arrest the 14 yr old, got show tactical awareness bo? Or all mass orgy N go n arrest.

Even if he use force on the ger, don't need to grab him in school. Just go his house n bring him n parents down.
Don't need to do in school.

If cctv footage is so clear, why need to interrogate him?

And Singapore is the only bs fake country where a confession from a 14 yr old child from a 3 hour interrogation can be acceptable. Haha what a joke!!

And Benjamin 14 yr old nia, fucking hero to last 3 hours.
Only idiots will think the police ask him nicely for 3 hours.

They are afraid of whackin him so I bet they knnbccb him nonstop. Saying he will b raped in jail n be a burden on his family so better confess

If cctv footage so clear, the parents will likely persuade him to admit it.

And where's the schools role in all this?
Wash their hands off n bochap?? Cb la.
No fucking support from school, don't expect students to care about the school.

And all this effort for fuck?
Very likely he kenna probation even if guilty unless he fucking violent on the girl or he rapist.

Benjamins parents learnt a valuable lesson.
The fucked up garbagement n the police is not for the people. Theyre to be used against the people.

From now onwards, its obvious they'll close ranks n the garbagement will smear a dead 14 yr old boy saying he deserved it n its his fault cos he's a criminal n they did everything by the book.

No NGO or lawyer can help the family.
No answer or satisfactory reply will b given.
No one will b answerable.
Form inquiry also useless.

Even if the family is poor, they should wake up n act n vote against the garbagement from now onwards.

Make Benjamins life and death meaningful.
Don't let him die in vain

devilchan78

31-01-2016, 11:37 PM

Knn and send 5 men after a 14 yr old.
Where were they during the little India riots?

Totally agreed. Young life is lost. Must be tragic for the family.

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 12:25 AM

I see spf no up just like I see your posts no up.
Knn after you come back, still copy n paste?
Where's your cb analysis???

Knn and they send 5 men after a 14 yr old kid.
Where were these heroes during the little India riots?
When they go arrest the 14 yr old, got show tactical awareness bo? Or all mass orgy N go n arrest.

Even if he use force on the ger, don't need to grab him in school. Just go his house n bring him n parents down.
Don't need to do in school.

If cctv footage is so clear, why need to interrogate him?

And Singapore is the only bs fake country where a confession from a 14 yr old child from a 3 hour interrogation can be acceptable. Haha what a joke!!

And Benjamin 14 yr old nia, fucking hero to last 3 hours.
Only idiots will think the police ask him nicely for 3 hours.

They are afraid of whackin him so I bet they knnbccb him nonstop. Saying he will b raped in jail n be a burden on his family so better confess

If cctv footage so clear, the parents will likely persuade him to admit it.

And where's the schools role in all this?
Wash their hands off n bochap?? Cb la.
No fucking support from school, don't expect students to care about the school.

And all this effort for fuck?
Very likely he kenna probation even if guilty unless he fucking violent on the girl or he rapist.

Benjamins parents learnt a valuable lesson.
The fucked up garbagement n the police is not for the people. Theyre to be used against the people.

From now onwards, its obvious they'll close ranks n the garbagement will smear a dead 14 yr old boy saying he deserved it n its his fault cos he's a criminal n they did everything by the book.

No NGO or lawyer can help the family.
No answer or satisfactory reply will b given.
No one will b answerable.
Form inquiry also useless.

Even if the family is poor, they should wake up n act n vote against the garbagement from now onwards.

Make Benjamins life and death meaningful.
Don't let him die in vain

The student is innocent until proven guilty.

The school should not have played Judge and found him guilty by taking away his trip to the school camp. It will only increase speculations among his peers.

The school also should not have allowed the Police to take the student away in the middle of school.

It takes huge amount of courage and depression to commit suicide and jumping.

The Police during interrogation maybe made the student felt totally helpless and the entire world is against him. To add insult, the school found him guilty before the the legal process could.

The school should have been positive and stood by the student's side until proven otherwise. The school administration was total rubbish.

WP MP Sylvia Lim did ask for police interrogation to be video recorded like any other developed countries police to protect all parties. But PAP said video recording of interrogation will hinder investigations. Other countries police can solve crimes even with video recording of interrogation, only SPF cannot solve crimes if have video interrogation?

Without video recording of the interrogation, it is the Police's word versus the deceased family's words. This case will be unresolved.

20140312 Video recording no longer a choice in police interrogations

https://likedatosocanmeh.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/20140312-video-recording-no-longer-a-choice-in-police-interrogations/

March 12, 2014 by Phillip Ang

S Iswaran, Second Minister for Home Affairs, announced in Parliament on Thursday that police officers will wear body cameras from the middle of the year. Iswaran cited their use in countries such as the UK and Canada which have benefitted from the use of this technology. The hardware and support will cost millions but this will be tax dollars well spent.

Strangely, Iswaran ignores the fact that UK police have also been leveraging on the use of technology to video record the statements of accused persons in police custody. This suggestion was first brought up by WP MP Sylvia Lim during a MinLaw COS debate 6 years ago and subsequently in 2011 and 2013. link The response given was that “video recording does not ensure that statements are voluntarily given”.

The response was a non response because it ignored all the other benefits such as saving of police and court time in the event of the statements being challenged.

In 2013, Ms Indranee Rajah’s response again ignored all the benefits of video recording. She claimed there were “clear avenues available” for “an accused (who) wishes to challenge the statement given by him”. link

Recent allegations of police abuse/assault and the use of unprofessional or dubious tactics of interrogation have surfaced. Andrew Loh highlighted the following instances:
– Lutz Pfannenstiel, former goalkeeper, alleged that CPIB officers had assaulted him during questioning.
– Ng Boon Gan, ex CNB chief, alleged that CPIB deputy director had pressured him into pleading guilty.
– Law professor Tey Hsun Hang alleged the use of heavy-handed tactics to force him to make “confessions” while he was under medication. (after serving his jail sentence, Tey appealed and the High Court acquitted him of all charges of corruption link)

In 2009, Neo Siong Leng, CPIB investigator was charged with hurting a Chinese national Lin Yanmei’s knee during investigation. He was later found not guilty by the courts.

Police and court limited resources have been expanded and wasted. Perhaps Ms Indranee is agreeable to wasting the court and police time?

During a police interrogation, Chinese SMRT bus drivers had also alleged in a video interview that they were abused and threatened by police officers for taking part in a strike. Despite the conclusion of police investigations and the issue of a statement denying the abuse had taken place, one of the bus drivers continued to insist that the alleged assault had taken place.

Without video evidence, many citizens may tend to believe the driver instead of the police.

(read Andrew Loh’s article for more details)

Indranee went on to say that she thought “the government recognises the rationale behind the suggestions” and this suggestion will be considered when “MHA further reviews the processes”.

It has been a year since Indranee vocalised her thought on this issue and 6 years since Sylvia Lim first brought it up. It does not cost an arm and a leg, so why has the government repeatedly refused?

In a MinLaw COS debate speech, Assoc Prof Ho Peng Kee said: “The crux of the matter lies in whether Singaporeans have trust and confidence in our legal system and our Police Force. On both counts, this is the case.” That was 6 year ago in 2008. After the recent spate of high profile cases of corruption, including the ‘incorruptible’ CPIB, the trust and confidence in our legal system and Police Force is unlikely to be the same.

The repeated refusal to implement video recording during police interrogations may lead to increasing speculation of wrongdoing and cover up by the police. The government should not continue to ignore MP Sylvia Lim’s suggestion as the introduction of video recording could also “help protect the integrity of Singapore police”.

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 12:32 AM

https://www.facebook.com/publichousesg/posts/421836151243740

publichouse.sg
March 7, 2013 ·

WP MP Sylvia Lim, in Parliament:
MinLaw – Criminal Procedure (3 min)

I would like to raise 2 areas for review concerning the investigation and pre-trial stages of criminal cases.

First, I would like to re-visit the suggestion to video-record the statements given by accused persons in custody. This practice of video-recording is in place in several advanced jurisdictions including Australia, the United Kingdom, South Korea and Taiwan.

Its purpose is as a safeguard, to ensure that the person in custody gave his statement voluntarily and that the words in the statement fell from the accused’s own lips and were not force-fed.

I first raised this issue during MinLaw’s COS 5 years ago, in 2008. At that time, the government response was that video-recording does not ensure that statements are voluntarily given. In 2011, MinLaw made a similar response after the Ismil Kadar case.

While I agree that video-recording is not a fool-proof guarantee against impropriety during investigations, the benefits of doing so are undeniable and accrue to both the state and the defence. For the state, it offers significant protection to our law enforcement officers against groundless allegations that they threatened the accused or subjected the accused to duress.

Footage of the statement recording will show the demeanour of the accused and the recording officer, to enable the court to come to certain conclusions about whether the accused’s will was sapped through sleep deprivation or he was not in a proper frame of mind during the recording.

Furthermore, statements are often challenged by the defence on the ground that the words in the statement were put in by the recording officer and did not come from the accused.

A video-record would settle that question decisively.

In other countries, video recording has been found to save police and court time, as both sides may decide not to pursue certain matters after viewing the recording. At the same time, it is a safeguard to maintaining high standards of law enforcement.

We in Singapore may need this safeguard even more, since an arrested person’s right to see counsel under arrest is so limited. Would the government at least re-think its position on this issue, or pilot some trials?

Secondly, the Criminal Procedure Code 2010 introduced a new pre-trial case disclosure regime where both prosecution and defence are required to disclose evidence relevant to the case well ahead of the trial.

Since its implementation, I have assisted as defence counsel in a few court cases under the framework, and I can see its value and contribution towards a fair trial.

Currently, only District Court cases under the Penal Code and selected statutes come under the disclosure regime. Other cases, e.g. those charged under the Prevention of Corruption Act, have not been brought under the framework yet. As the framework has proven useful and successful, when will its scope be expanded to cover other laws like the PCA?

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 12:34 AM

COS 2013 Debates: MinLaw – Criminal Procedure (MP Sylvia Lim)

http://www.wp.sg/cos-2013-debates-minlaw-criminal-procedure-mp-sylvia-lim/

Posted March 8, 2013 / Committee of Supply 2013, law, sylvia lim in Committee of Supply 2013, law, sylvia lim

By MP for Aljunied GRC, Sylvia Lim
[Delivered in Committee of Supply on 8 March 2013]

I would like to raise 2 areas for review concerning the investigation and pre-trial stages of criminal cases.

First, I would like to re-visit the suggestion to video-record the statements given by accused persons in custody. This practice of video-recording is in place in several advanced jurisdictions including Australia, the United Kingdom, South Korea and Taiwan.

Its purpose is as a safeguard, to ensure that the person in custody gave his statement voluntarily and that the words in the statement fell from the accused’s own lips and were not force-fed.

I first raised this issue during MinLaw’s COS 5 years ago, in 2008. At that time, the government response was that video-recording does not ensure that statements are voluntarily given. In 2011, MinLaw made a similar response after the Ismil Kadar case.

While I agree that video-recording is not a fool-proof guarantee against impropriety during investigations, the benefits of doing so are undeniable and accrue to both the state and the defence.

For the state, it offers significant protection to our law enforcement officers against groundless allegations that they threatened the accused or subjected the accused to duress.

Footage of the statement recording will show the demeanour of the accused and the recording officer, to enable the court to come to certain conclusions about whether the accused’s will was sapped through sleep deprivation or he was not in a proper frame of mind during the recording.

Furthermore, statements are often challenged by the defence on the ground that the words in the statement were put in by the recording officer and did not come from the accused. A video-record would settle that question decisively.

In other countries, video recording has been found to save police and court time, as both sides may decide not to pursue certain matters after viewing the recording. At the same time, it is a safeguard to maintaining high standards of law enforcement. We in Singapore may need this safeguard even more, since an arrested person’s right to see counsel under arrest is so limited. Would the government at least re-think its position on this issue, or pilot some trials?

Secondly, the Criminal Procedure Code 2010 introduced a new pre-trial case disclosure regime where both prosecution and defence are required to disclose evidence relevant to the case well ahead of the trial. Since its implementation, I have assisted as defence counsel in a few court cases under the framework, and I can see its value and contribution towards a fair trial.

Currently, only District Court cases under the Penal Code and selected statutes come under the disclosure regime. Other cases, e.g. those charged under the Prevention of Corruption Act, have not been brought under the framework yet. As the framework has proven useful and successful, when will its scope be expanded to cover other laws like the PCA?

sadfa

01-02-2016, 12:43 AM

Kuasimi you fucking weak la.

The school didn't find him guilty la.
If you're investigated for siphoning money, your company must b damn stupid to let you still be in charge of money.

It's obvious the school is being buddy buddy with the police n do wad the police wants.
Cb! Is this a school or another arm of the government?? Whats their role with regards to students?
I don't think this is a beng or SS school where There are daily troubles n Benjamin don't sound like one.

And police even ask the family down for meeting.
Smart thing the family told them fuck off la.
Even a Jackass knows there won't b any apology or answers the family wants given.

sadfa

01-02-2016, 01:29 AM

This fucked up government sent a 17 yr old boy to jail cuz he didn't express his love for old man, he's glad he died, I mean he insulted Christians.

Now they interrogated n treated a 14 yr old like an adult n they're surprised he cant take it??? And killed himself?

Its obvious that it doesn't matter how old or young sporeans are. They'll be treated as disposable cos they are disposable and mean absolutely nothing to the government.

Repent for voting these a holes

thickhead

01-02-2016, 01:59 AM

sadfa

01-02-2016, 02:56 AM

I feel very sad. Irony is that I am posting this in this famous forum.

There should be an inquiry into police handling of this case.
It is clear why there is no video recording during interrogation.
The police are no angels - it is difficult to get guilty admissions by being nice.

RIP Benjamin. Sad that a young life is lost.

Please la. Inquiry my lanjiao la.

Unless people like chee n Kenneth are on it, it'll b civil servants or ex judges. What's the point?

You think they'll criticise the government? The problem is the governments fucked up attitude to spore ppl n how they exercise their powers. It'll never change.

And you think the officer will admit to the inquiry he told a 14 yr old, ccb! We got cctv footage n a 11 yr old gers statement. You better admit. if not you'll b raped in prison n I'll make sure the whole world know u attack her n yr family lose face n their jobs. Cb! I know you're guilty. Just admit la before I whack you!

And the fucked up media not involved yet.
Once they're involved, They'll fucking smear Benjamin with the government

sadfa

01-02-2016, 03:08 AM

In China, its a sin to be poor.

In this fake bs country, Benjamins parents discovered they must be rich n connected. If they are, Benjamin won't be dead.

If you're poor, good fucking luck n don't expect any help from the cb government

As if theyll dare to send 5 cops to RI, ACS or Chinese high. Benjamin will call his parents n the lawyers will fly Down to meet n greet them.

And if the cops use a 14 yr olds 3 hours confession, his lawyers will rip the police a new one.

spluder101

01-02-2016, 04:44 PM

Does Singapore have Miranda rights? Like if you get arrested, can you Tia Gong until your lawyer come or will the police just go ahead and charge you?

BlickBassy

01-02-2016, 04:56 PM

Does Singapore have Miranda rights? Like if you get arrested, can you Tia Gong until your lawyer come or will the police just go ahead and charge you?

Bo arrest no need read rights. Just drink Kopi(with milk)and scare the shit out of the kid's pants. Juveniles need to accompanied by Guardians one. The kid must have decided his life has game over. A social service person can also be on hand to figure the pscho health of the kid. Maybe the process needs to be redefined for kid cases. The deceased family can take legal actions if the case was mishandled (note :discussion without prejudice or malice n for academic excellence only).

clapton

01-02-2016, 05:36 PM

countryman

01-02-2016, 05:52 PM

MacDD

01-02-2016, 06:00 PM

countryman

01-02-2016, 06:12 PM

Till now nobody knows the truth how this boy was handled? Let's not put the blame on our police 1st cos they also have their job to do.The boy's suicide may not even be linked to how he was treated by the police! It could be teasing and taunting from his schoolmates n peers that triggered his suicide.
What we were reading were all speculations ,assumptions n people stirring shit...Dumb fool.

rooneyrocks

01-02-2016, 06:18 PM

Whether the boy did it or not is inmaterial.
He should not be handle in this way. He is just a kid.
And nobody knows whether he is guilty or not.

countryman

01-02-2016, 06:23 PM

But how do u know whether he was handled properly or not? Were u there to see it?
So let them do a proper investigation 1st b4 we come to any conclusion.

rooneyrocks

01-02-2016, 06:50 PM

So was u there?

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 06:52 PM

Maybe this 14 year old boy was guilty? Imagine the victim is your daughter or younger sister ,how would u feel?
It is good society get rid of such people. Cos next time when he gets older, he will do more harm to society out there! There is a sickness in them which is incurable..

Wow. You behave like the school to play Judge and issue the boy guilty verdict. You can even predict the boy's future? You watch too much movies like Minority Report? You are pretty sick.

Nobody is guilty until the Judge issue the verdict. In Singapore, only the Judge can ask anybody to plead guilty or not. Even the Police cannot ask the boy to plead guilty or not.

You want to protect PAP and SPF also no need to stoop so low right?

It is the Police's words versus the deceased family's words. Without video recording of police interrogation asked by WP, this case will forever remain unresolved.

Given past track record of PAP and SPF to keep a good clean image at all cost, this case will be forgotten soon enough as the Media is not reporting this news or blowing it up. This is like the SGH Hep C Scandal. All the fault will be pushed to the dead boy and family.

Campro

01-02-2016, 06:54 PM

rooneyrocks

01-02-2016, 06:54 PM

The family whether rich or poor should ask more questions to get closure.
And why our mps are not asking questions?

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 06:58 PM

I feel very sad. Irony is that I am posting this in this famous forum.

There should be an inquiry into police handling of this case.
It is clear why there is no video recording during interrogation.
The police are no angels - it is difficult to get guilty admissions by being nice.

RIP Benjamin. Sad that a young life is lost.

Many countries police can still solve crimes with video recording of interrogation, only SPF cannot resolve crimes with video recording of interrogation? SPF is the highest paid police force in the world if you did not know. This is the same as Singapore Government.

You are saying it is better to be like Ancient times whereby confessions are taken from coercions by authorities?

I think wait until you get police interrogation and then you might change your mind.

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 07:01 PM

Why was the police involved if it is a minor? I thought children under certain age are not supposed to be in police custody. I share my own experience.

Many years ago after PSLE I was posted to a neighborhood secondary school. Many of my friends from primary were also posted there too so naturally we became quite a close knit group. We would often play soccer at the basketball court of the nearby CC after school. Nearby to the CC was an ITE. Some of their students would also play soccer at the basketball court sometimes and we always give each other space. However, one day due to some misunderstanding both of our groups clashed. It was a blur and I can only remember more than twenty of us students fighting each other. The police came and teachers from our school and the ITE also came to the scene. The police separated us and then wanted to bring us all back to the police station. Our school discipline master stopped them and refused to let us go up the police vans. After making a few phone calls he told the police inspector in charge to take the call and listen to orders.

We did not go to the police station. Instead all of us were brought to the CC's Boys club and told to remain inside while they investigated the matter. This was done by the CC staff and the school teachers from both our school / ITE. The police were told to stay outside and not involved.

End of the day none of the students involved were brought back to the police station although we each got a public caning during school assembly. It was during this incident that I also learnt from the CC manager that the police cannot arrest children under a certain age. I am sure the law has not been changed although more than 20 yrs ago.

Thank you brother.

This is a valuable sharing of information.

This applies to anyone who have kids.

countryman

01-02-2016, 07:25 PM

So was u there?

Of cos i wasn't there n neither were u! That's why like i said, let them do a proper investigation 1st b4 u jump to any conclusion. Be fair to our police force.
Whether u like it or not, if u live n work in Singapore n you can't migrate to anywhere, lan lan u have to accept the system here n make the best out of it! :D:D:D

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 07:25 PM

What MSM reported wrongly about case involving the death of 14-year-old student

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/what-msm-reported-wrongly-about-case-involving-the-death-of-14-year-old-student/

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/MSM_report-702x320.jpg

Headline by The New Paper (TNP)

By Terry Xu on February 1, 2016 Commentaries

On the morning of 26 January, Benjamin Lim, a secondary three student was taken to the police station for investigation by five plainclothes police officers from his school and was interviewed for over 3 hours.

Benjamin was being alleged to have molested an 11-year-old girl on Monday afternoon which he denies.

Shortly after returning home with his mother and sister from the police station, he locked himself in his room and jumped out the window. (read more)

The death of the 14-year-old student was vaguely covered by the Mainstream Media (MSM) over the past week based on statements primarily from the police and school.

The Chinese evening papers, Shin Min Daily managed to report the case as accurate as it could from the limited statement from the authorities, however the rest somehow got a few details wrong or presented it in a misleading manner.

Here, we would like to assist the family in clarifying the details in the case from some of the papers.

Timing of the police’s contact with Benjamin

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/takentopolice.jpg

Report from Straits Times and Todayonline

The newspaper regurgitated the timing given by the police that it had custody of Benjamin. The police said that Benjamin was taken to the Ang Mo Kio Police Division at around 11.30am.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/TNP_recess.jpg

The school confirms that the police officers came during recess period to speak with Benjamin. According to the school’s timetable, the recess time for Secondary 3 students is 10:45 am – 11:15 am.

The school counsellor shared that Benjamin had just purchased a bun and drink and was asked to go to the office for the meeting with the police. It is also noted that Benjamin was not given the time to consume his drink and bun until just before he left with the police officers.

The mother has already since said that by the time she arrived at the school from the call of the police, the police has already taken Benjamin to the police station, which was before 11 am.

This would make sense if Benjamin was immediately called to the principal office soon after the recess started when he got his food, police used his phone to call the mother and immediately leave for the police station after Benjamin had consumed his food. So when the mother arrived at the school, the Benjamin was already gone with the officers to the police station.

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 07:25 PM

What MSM reported wrongly about case involving the death of 14-year-old student

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/what-msm-reported-wrongly-about-case-involving-the-death-of-14-year-old-student/

School camp was held in Malaysia

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/malaysiacamp.jpg

Report from TNP

The New Paper (TNP) reported that the school camp that Benjamin was supposed to attend is located in Malaysia. However, it is not the case. The school camp was to be held in the Ministry of Education (MOE) Labrador Camp Site as shown in the school letter to parents.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/secthreecamp-650x320.jpg

Letter from school about school camp

School counsellor called mother at 3 pm and mother agreed

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/stayclose.jpg

Report by TNP

TNP also reported that the school counsellor called at 3 pm and that the mother agreed that Benjamin should not attend the camp.

The family shared that the mother was saddened when she was told of this. According to the mother, the school merely informed of the school’s decision that Benjamin should not attend the camp and stay at home for E-learning.

The timing of the call is also wrong. Shin Min reported the exact time that the school counsellor called at 4.13pm to inform the mother of the school’s decision.

Claims against the mother emerge

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/doubts-650x93.jpg

In forums and on Facebook, individuals have started to speculate that it is possible that the mother might have unknowingly hurt Benjamin through her questioning.

We may never know if that is true and therefore, it would be disrespectful towards the mother and family to make such unfounded speculation.

According to the police’s statement, it released Benjamin at 2.50 pm. From the Ang Mo Kio Police Divisional Headquarters to Benjamin’s flat, it takes a minimum travelling time of 32 minutes. The mother said they took about 40 minutes to reach back home. So if considering the time needed to finish the paperwork, the family got back home close to 4 pm.

What we do know for certain is that the school’s call to the mother is made on 4.13pm and the time of Benjamin’s death was documented at 4.20pm.

I Love Boobs

01-02-2016, 07:32 PM

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 07:38 PM

Of cos i wasn't there n neither were u! That's why like i said, let them do a proper investigation 1st b4 u jump to any conclusion. Be fair to our police force.
Whether u like it or not, if u live n work in Singapore n you can't migrate to anywhere, lan lan u have to accept the system here n make the best out of it! :D:D:D

It was Internet that stirred these news, not the Media, Police or Government.

How do you suggest to investigate? Police and Government investigate themselves?

Like the SGH Hep C Scandal where 8 people died and thousands checked for infection but nobody was to blame after investigation?

Only you are jumping to conclusions by proclaiming the boy guilty for molest. Nobody is being unfair to SPF. The timeline of facts are real. The school and SPF did play a part in the arrest, interrogation and subsequently the suicide.

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 07:41 PM

The kid was 99.9999% guilty of molestation.
With video evidence.
He would have been sent to juve and been screwed the rest of his life.
He should have just asked his mum for $50, gone for a CAT50 and had a good time.
Kids in SG are just too stressed. Behaviour in this country is not in accordance with social norms in other parts of the world.
Try complaining about slow service in McDonald's in Harlem. Likely you'll be mugged outside and shot!

You compare this case with mugging in Harlem? For what? Any linkage or similiarities?

You want to play Judge and God to proclaim the boy as guilty? Any evidence? Even the police did not have clear evidence that why need to interrogate the boy.

countryman

01-02-2016, 07:45 PM

The kid was 99.9999% guilty of molestation.
With video evidence.
He would have been sent to juve and been screwed the rest of his life.
He should have just asked his mum for $50, gone for a CAT50 and had a good time.
Kids in SG are just too stressed. Behaviour in this country is not in accordance with social norms in other parts of the world.
Try complaining about slow service in McDonald's in Harlem. Likely you'll be mugged outside and shot!

There is some sickness in them to commit such crimes n usually it will not go away n they will be repeated offenders.
The boy should be 15 this year as he's in secondary 3..
Imo,no excuse can go around molesting girls out there if he is guilty.

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 07:49 PM

There is some sickness in them to commit such crimes n usually it will not go away n they will be repeated offenders.
The boy should be 15 this year as he's in secondary 3..
Imo,no excuse can go around molesting girls out there.

You want to play Judge and God to proclaim the boy as guilty? Any evidence? Even the police did not have clear evidence that why need to interrogate the boy.

You dont know Singapore legal system follow the UK Legal System of innocent until proven guilty ?

You following CCP China Legal System or Qing Dynasty Legal Codes? Guilty until proven innocent.

Even CHC Kong Hee was innocent of all charges until recent guilty verdict given by the Judge.

As long as Police cannot produce the self-proclaimed CCTV of boy molesting girl and the video recording of police interrogation, nobody can issue any verdict on who is at fault.

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 07:59 PM

sadfa

01-02-2016, 08:08 PM

The kid was 99.9999% guilty of molestation.
With video evidence.
He would have been sent to juve and been screwed the rest of his life.
He should have just asked his mum for $50, gone for a CAT50 and had a good time.
Kids in SG are just too stressed. Behaviour in this country is not in accordance with social norms in other parts of the world.
Try complaining about slow service in McDonald's in Harlem. Likely you'll be mugged outside and shot!

No he would likely b in probation.

Even if he's punished in court, his details wouldn't be made known cos he's a juvenile. And simple molest case, the punishment is light.

So even in worst case scenario, his life won't be ruined.

His parents aren't rich so they likely won't know all this cos they probably can't hire a lawyer.

sadfa

01-02-2016, 08:12 PM

And why our mps are not asking questions?

Going to ask liao.

Questions like we know spf is the best. Pls confirm everything is done by the book or pls confirm Benjamins death nothing to do with you. Or are more policemen going to wear shorts when cycling?

15k not easy to earn ok.

sadfa

01-02-2016, 08:19 PM

Of cos i wasn't there n neither were u! That's why like i said, let them do a proper investigation 1st b4 u jump to any conclusion. Be fair to our police force.
Whether u like it or not, if u live n work in Singapore n you can't migrate to anywhere, lan lan u have to accept the system here n make the best out of it! :D:D:D

Do what investigation? Who order? You?
No investigation ok.
If you fucked up, will u investigate yourself for fucking up?

Even if Benjamin jumped off the police building, they'll investigate how he got access not how he was interrogated.

This is wad happens when this bunch of fuckers are voted in. Good luck

countryman

01-02-2016, 08:22 PM

You want to play Judge and God to proclaim the boy as guilty? Any evidence? Even the police did not have clear evidence that why need to interrogate the boy.

You dont know Singapore legal system follow the UK Legal System of innocent until proven guilty ?

You following CCP China Legal System or Qing Dynasty Legal Codes? Guilty until proven innocent.

Even CHC Kong Hee was innocent of all charges until recent guilty verdict given by the Judge.

As long as Police cannot produce the self-proclaimed CCTV of boy molesting girl and the video recording of police interrogation, nobody can issue any verdict on who is at fault.

It is useless, talk until tomorrow also like that lah! The most u can do is KPKB here only.
Life goes on,a few months down the road, this matter will soon be forgotten!

countryman

01-02-2016, 08:30 PM

Do what investigation? Who order? You?
No investigation ok.
If you fucked up, will u investigate yourself for fucking up?

Even if Benjamin jumped off the police building, they'll investigate how he got access not how he was interrogated.

This is wad happens when this bunch of fuckers are voted in. Good luck
Be grateful of what u have here in Singapore!
Just be law abiding, work hard n u will have a comfortable life..No point only know how to KPKB about gahmen!
Not happy, go live in Myanmar or Philippines! Very good system they have there.... :D:D:D

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 09:05 PM

Be grateful of what u have here in Singapore!
Just be law abiding, work hard n u will have a comfortable life..No point only know how to KPKB about gahmen!
Not happy, go live in Myanmar or Philippines! Very good system they have there.... :D:D:D

Be grateful for what? Was your boss ever grateful for your work?

Everybody is like the Government who are paid a salary to do a good job. Besides PAP was rewarded each elections with votes past 50 years, so why mention gratefulness?

You stay in North Korea too long? Every North Korean are 'grateful' to the Kim family for creating a North Korean 'paradise'.

Why bring in Third World countries for this case? Any similiarities and linkages?

You are out of point. Whatever you commented have no bearing on this case at all.

Why need to leave Singapore if you complain about the Government? Singapore is our country, not the PAP's country.

You want a country that is pointless to complain about the Government and force to leave the country, then North Korea, China, ISIS are suitable countries for you. Many left these countries because they cannot complain about the Government.

You stooping so low to defend PAP and SPF. Is this your First World education? Now we know the low quality of PAP voters.

I guess Sadfa was right. I can see PAP supporters are pushing every blame to the dead boy and his family. The school, rules, regulations and SPF have zero responsibilities.

countryman

01-02-2016, 09:19 PM

sadfa

01-02-2016, 09:49 PM

Bo arrest no need read rights. Just drink Kopi(with milk)and scare the shit out of the kid's pants. Juveniles need to accompanied by Guardians one. The kid must have decided his life has game over. A social service person can also be on hand to figure the pscho health of the kid. Maybe the process needs to be redefined for kid cases. The deceased family can take legal actions if the case was mishandled (note :discussion without prejudice or malice n for academic excellence only).

Please la.

Even lawyers cant accompany an interrogation, you think parents n social service can accompany?

I bet they've a field day interrogating mentally challenged persons. After 3 hours, they'll confess to all the crimes including assassinating jfk.

The rot has always been there.
It takes a case like this to show spore is a fucked country. Repent la n stand by this garbagement for the next 50 years. By then Your kids are scheduled to go jail even when they're in kindergarten.

kuasimi

01-02-2016, 10:06 PM

I dunno about u! But i am grateful n contented here!
U KPKB till cows come home also useless. If u want to live here, Lan Lan u will still have to follow the system in Singapore like it or not! If u are so capable, go live in Australia, USA or North Korea.... :D
Signing off here, not gona waste my time with u here!
Lol......:D:D:D

You are saying citizens at Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Europe, South Korea, USA etc are not contented because they regularly change governments and complain about their governments?

Do you know these countries are more developed than Singapore and whatever Singapore has, these countries have much more.

I am not sure but I think your brain is stir fried by PAP until thinking Singapore is the centre of the universe and all creations. PAP is your God. It makes no sense.

People like you will be the first to surrender when war comes since you blindly obey anyone that is in power. Singapore cannot rely on people like you in crisis.You make NS look redundant and yet you support PAP. Ironic and hypocrite. Lol.

You should live in North Korea, your mentality suits there especially your 'not happy, can leave the country' mentality.

Your PAP is beyond and above criticisms. PAP are your deities and Gods.

But the issue here is not political but SPF and Northview Secondary School. So all your points are pointless.

sadfa

01-02-2016, 10:10 PM

The issue here is not whether boy is guilty or not. This is only for the Judge and legal process to decide.

The issue is whether how the school and SPF handled the boy was right or wrong.

Why was the boy who was a minor interrogated alone without parents or lawyers present?

What happened during police interrogation? Was the boy coerce or ill-treated to a point his mental state became abnormal?

Why did the school allow the boy to be arrested in the middle of the school time, embarassing the boy in front of his peers and subsequently proclaim the boy guilty by disallowed him to go to the school camp?

The entire process had more wrongs than rights.

Once again your posts epic fail.
Where's your cb analysis? Where!!!

The police set up Benjamin.
It's a non seizable offence. I bet there's no warrant.
So they go to school to catch cos parents not there.

And the school failed Benjamin.
The principal blindly follow authority. Never think.
Where's his responsibility for Benjamin?

If the principal told the 5 cops he's responsible for Benjamin at school n ask them to produce warrant, they lppl. They won't expect it

And if he called Benjamins parents down, the police will lose their advantage. And its unlikely theyll tekan Benjamin for 3 hours if parents waiting outside n with support, its unlikely he will kill himself later.

The principal should just resign.
He just gave away children under his charge when ppl ask.

This is similar to those principals giving away their children when authorities came to take them away to work overseas for their poor families.

What's the work you ask? Comfort women.

What did this principal do?
He told Benjamin to eat his bread before sending him to his eventual doom n death. This guy will be judged when he dies.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 12:20 AM

The family whether rich or poor should ask more questions to get closure.
And why our mps are not asking questions?

Since the deceased is from Yishun, you can direct the questions to his PAP MPs from Nee Soon GRC who then can question SPF on behalf of their constituents.

If fail, direct the same questions at Minister of Home Affairs who oversees SPF.

Same questions should be ask of the Minister of Education who oversees the secondary school too.

So far, all very quiet about the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nee_Soon_Group_Representation_Constituency

K. Shanmugam
Henry Kwek
Lee Bee Wah
Muhammad Faishal Ibrahim
Ng Kok Kwang Louis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Home_Affairs_(Singapore)

Ministers responsible

K Shanmugam, Minister
Desmond Lee, Senior Minister of State
Amrin Amin, Parliamentary Secretary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Education_(Singapore)

Ministers responsible

Ng Chee Meng, Acting Minister for Education (Schools)
Ong Ye Kung, Acting Minister for Education (Higher Education and Skills)
Janil Puthucheary, Minister of State
Muhammad Faishal bin Ibrahim, Parliamentary Secretary
Low Yen Ling, Parliamentary Secretary

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 12:23 AM

Police to review procedures on police interviews with minors

By onlinecitizen on February 1, 2016 Current Affairs

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/police-to-review-procedures-on-police-interviews-with-minors/

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/police-review-interview-procedures-young-persons-5294393.html

http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/yishun-teen-death-police-review-interview-procedure

The Singapore Police Force (SPF) broke its silence on the death of Benjamin Lim, a 14-year-old male student with a public statement on Monday evening.

Lim was under the investigation for an alleged outrage of modesty. Shortly after returning home with his mother and sister from the police station, he locked himself in his room and jumped out the window to his death.

In its statement, SPF said it would be reviewing its procedures on the accompaniment of an appropriate adult to be present during the police interview of a minor.

The police also said that it had met the family to clarify the actions of the police officers during their interaction with Benjamin.

TOC understands that the family have met the police on Monday morning, however, was shocked from the details of the meeting. The police had shared details of the interview process and other aspect of the case with the family.

To understand more about the case, please read the interview with the family on what transpired on the day.

Police Statement on Death of 14-Year-Old Male Student Under Investigation for Outrage of Modesty

SINGAPORE — The Singapore Police Force today (Feb 1) delivered a statement regarding the death of a 14-year-old male student who had been under investigation for outrage of modesty.

In the statement, the Police said it would be reviewing its procedures on whether to allow an appropriate adult to be present when a young person is interviewed.

STATEMENT IN FULL:

Police Statement on Death of 14-Year-Old Male Student Under Investigation for Outrage of Modesty

In this case, a Police report was lodged about a molestation. Based on CCTV evidence, Police officers went to conduct enquiries at a school. To keep investigations discreet, the officers went in plainclothes and in unmarked cars. After discussions with the school officials, and the viewing of the CCTV records, Benjamin was identified as the boy in the CCTV records. He was brought to the Principal’s office by a school official and was spoken with in the presence of a Police officer. Before he was brought back to Ang Mo Kio Division, he contacted his mother to inform her of the Police’s investigations. The Police officer also spoke to the mother.

While at Ang Mo Kio Division, he was interviewed by one Investigation Officer at his workstation in an open plan office with other workstations. He was fully cooperative during the interview. He was then released on bail and went back with his mother.

The Police have been asked whether it should review the procedure to allow an appropriate adult to be present when a young person is interviewed. The Police will review and address this issue.

Police investigations have not been completed. A Coroner’s Inquiry will be held upon the conclusion of investigations, where all the relevant facts will be presented to the State Coroner. At the inquiry, the family will also be able to raise all questions that they may have.

Benjamin’s passing was tragic. The Police have expressed their deepest condolences to the family. They have met the family to address their questions on the case and provide clarifications on the actions of the Police officers during their interaction with Benjamin.

demonhunter

02-02-2016, 12:36 AM

Review ki tua lan

let the 14yr old boy visit the ppl which screwed him up !

:D

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 12:37 AM

Police, CNB to consult on video-recording of police interviews

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2015/07/police-cnb-to-consult-on-video-recording-of-police-interviews/

By theonlinecitizen on July 22, 2015 Current Affairs

The Singapore Police Force (SPF) and the Central Narcotics Bureau (CNB) will commence consultations on the Video Recording of Interviews (VRI) during investigations, with the view to start a pilot of VRI from the first quarter of 2016.

The authorities said this in a press release on Wednesday, 22 July.

The statement said the consultation is part of the Government’s commitment “to an effective and fair criminal justice system.”

“The feasibility study looked at how VRI has been adopted in the US, UK, Australia and Hong Kong and how the various models of VRI adopted have impacted on their administration of criminal justice,” the statement said. “The inter-agency workgroup found that while Singapore’s existing criminal investigation processes are robust, the implementation of VRI in Singapore will further strengthen confidence in the integrity of our criminal justice system and assist the Courts to try cases more effectively.”

It added that the implementation of VRI will provide the Courts with a video recording of the interview.

“This will allow the Courts to take the interviewee’s demeanour into account in determining the admissibility or weight to be accorded to the interviewee’s statement. It will also provide an objective contemporaneous account of the interview process and allow the Courts to decide on allegations that may be made about the interview.”

The pilot will involve a limited set of offences and allow for an assessment of the impact on investigations, its effectiveness in different situations, and the resources required before a decision is made on a broader implementation of VRI.

“It is envisaged that the pilot will be conducted under the existing legal framework,” the statement said.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/sylvia-lim-200x200.png

Sylvia Lim

The move is a reversal of the government’s position in the past when it rejected calls to introduce VRI, particularly in 2008 when the call was made by then Non-constituency Member of Parliament (NCMP) Sylvia Lim.

Ms Lim, who is currently the MP for Aljunied GRC and had served in the police force previously, had said that the practice in Australian states, the UK and several states in the US have proved to be good for both the prosecution as well as the defence.

“For the prosecution, it protects police officers from groundless accusations that they mistreated the suspect or did not accurately record what the suspect said,” Ms Lim explained in Parliament then.

“Video recording in other countries was found to have saved lots of Police and court time as more accused persons decided to plead guilty after watching the video recordings,” she said. “For the defence, video recording helped to ensure that there was no mistreatment of the accused during the statement recording and that the record accurately reflected what the accused said. The technology for video recording is now relatively accessible and inexpensive. If adopted, this practice will encourage all to maintain high standards in law enforcement.”

However, Ms Lim’s suggestion was shot down by the then Senior Minister of State (Law), Ho Peng Kee.

Mr Ho said that the introduction of the VRI in other countries was because of the “loss of public confidence in the police” there.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Ho-Peng-Kee-200x200.jpg

Ho Peng Kee

“So the crux of the matter lies in whether Singaporeans have trust and confidence in our legal system and our Police Force. On both counts, this is the case,” Mr Ho said. “Our criminal justice system is reputed for its clean administration, impartiality and efficiency, and the public has trust and confidence in our Police Force.”

Mr Ho also said that the onus was on the suspect to tell the truth.

“Ultimately, the bottom-line is for the suspect to ‘tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth’,” Mr Ho said. “He should do so even without any videotaping.”

Ms Lim, in her reply, pressed home the point that sometimes accused persons are convicted based on their confessions alone and this was one reason why VRI would be important.

Ms Lim said:

“A lot of weight is given to the statement and, hence, I do not quite understand why the Ministry is not willing to consider video recording because it would at least be an accurate record of what happened during the statement-taking process, whether the contents came from the accused’s mouth or were paraphrases, for example, by the investigating officer because he felt it was more appropriate. Because certain nuances in the language can be very important, can be given much weight during the trial itself. So, I do not quite understand why the Ministry is resistant to this idea.”

Prof Ho stood his grounds and said there was already “an established process” whereby the validity of a statement by the accused can be verified or be thrown out by the Courts.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 12:44 AM

Review ki tua lan

let the 14yr old boy visit the ppl which screwed him up !

:D

Maybe he should. :eek::eek:

sadfa

02-02-2016, 12:50 AM

Review ki tua lan

let the 14yr old boy visit the ppl which screwed him up !

:D

Review is wayang la. Coroner inquiry waste time.

I bet 100% police n school nt held responsible.
Benjamin jump is becos he can't handle pressure.
End of the day, his life n death got no meaning.
Fuck those cb.
Hope Benjamin haunt the cb principal n police till they die

thickhead

02-02-2016, 12:52 AM

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 12:53 AM

Teens may not know their legal rights: Teen death in Yishun raises issue

http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/teens-may-not-know-their-legal-rights-teen-death-yishun-raises-issue

Should parents or guardians be present when the police question a young accused person?

The issue surfaced after a 14-year-old boy's death in Yishun on Tuesday.

The Secondary 3 boy was being investigated for molest before he fell from his 14th-storey window. He had been taken into police custody and released on bail on the same day of his death.

His mother said he had admitted to the crime during the police interview.

But when she later probed him, she said he told her: "I did not do it, but since everyone thinks that I did it, then I did it."

We are not identifying the boy, his family or his school as he was a minor.

His parents want to know why he was questioned by the police without their presence.Shouldn't parents or guardians be present when a young accused person is questioned by the police?According to current practice, there is no need for it to be so.

Said ambassador for the National Crime Prevention Council, Mr Lionel de Souza: "A police investigation is about searching for the truth. Having a parent in the same room with the accused would hamper this search, because they will not be neutral parties.

"Currently, there is no legal requirement for parents, guardians or legal counsel to be present in the interview room when a minor is involved."It is not like in American television, where suspects are shown to refuse to speak until their lawyer is there," he said.

If the minor is deemed by the investigation officer to be emotionally unstable, he can call for a counsellor to be present during the interview."But never the parents. If there is reason to doubt whether the accused was coerced or not, this can be brought up by lawyers in court," added the 73-year-old former policeman.

VIDEO

Starting this year, the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) will also pilot the video recording of interviews during investigation, the Ministry said previously.This was in response to MPs and lawyers who have called for such video recordings of how law enforcement officers take statements.

"This will allow the courts to take the interviewee's demeanour into account in determining the admissibility or weight to be accorded to the interviewee's statement," MHA said. Lawyers who spoke to The New Paper feel that more should be done in cases of accused minors.

Veteran lawyer Amolat Singh believes the "default position" should be to assume that a minor does not understand his situation properly because of his level of maturity.Said Mr Singh: "Children are very vulnerable. If teachers and principals can terrify a child, how do you think they would react to a police officer?

"Being called up by the police is a terrifying situation for them. Kids will say whatever they think the police want to hear to get out of the situation."

Although a programme exists for young or vulnerable witnesses or victims of a crime, it does not apply to minors who are accused of a crime.Known as the Witness Support Programme, volunteers will give emotional support to witnesses who are under 18 or have a mental capacity of a person under 18.

Something similar should be extended to a young accused person, suggested Mr Singh.

Lawyer Terence Seah of Virtus Law agreed: "Young persons might not know their rights and might be subject to unfair pressure from the police if they choose to do so.

It would be helpful for the parents to be present."In a case like this boy's, Dr Lim Boon Leng, a psychiatrist at Dr BL Lim Centre for Psychological Wellness, believes there is a difference between young children and teenagers in such situations.

Dr Lim said: "Young children may be easily intimidated but for teenagers, it is difficult to say as there are many factors. Teenagers can be highly independent or dependent on adults."It is also in the interest of the police to make the interview comfortable for children and teen witnesses as this allows them to record accurate statements, he said.

A better way to prevent a conflict of interest with investigators would be for an accused minor to know that their parents or guardians are in the vicinity, said child psychiatrist Brian Yeo.Said Dr Yeo: "They do not specifically have to be in the same room as their child, but be nearby.

At the very least, their proximity would help reassure their child."Of course, authorities should also be mindful of what they say to the child too."The bedroom where the teenager jumped down from.

School: We were discreet, supportive

The boy's school had sought to minimise any embarrassment caused to him when he was taken away by the police, said its principal.Speaking to his parents and the school, The New Paper pieced together what had happened before the incident.

On Jan 26, about five policemen in civilian clothes arrived at the principal's office during recess time and asked to speak to the boy.The school principal said: "When the plainclothes police officers came to the school, we were discreet in bringing the student to the office to meet with the police."He also ensured that the boy was able to finish his meal before he was taken to the police station.

It was at this time that the boy's mother received a call from a police officer using her son's mobile phone.She told TNP: "I was shocked because I don't believe my son could do such a thing. He was such a filial and obedient boy."The boy later left with the police in an unmarked car, at a time when the other students were in class, said the principal.

He added: "Throughout the process, we were mindful that as a young student, he would be frightened and we strove to give him as much emotional support as possible."

A police spokesman said the boy was not handcuffed throughout his time with the police.They had visited the school "to establish the identify of a student who was captured on closed-circuit television footage at the lift lobby of an HDB block", said the spokesman.

The boy, an accomplished National Police Cadet Corps cadet, was also looking forward to attending a three-day school camp in Malaysia for his Secondary 3 cohort the next day.

STAY CLOSE

At around 3pm, his mother said she received a call from the school counsellor who advised that her son should stay close to his parents rather than be away at camp.

They agreed, and his mother later told the boy that he would not be attending the camp.A while later, the boy quietly locked himself in his bedroom and fell to his death from the window.

The principal said: "The school is deeply saddened by our student's passing. He was a good student who was well-liked by staff and schoolmates."His well-being was always topmost in our minds."

The boy was cremated on Thursday afternoon.

Helplines

Samaritans of Singapore (SOS)1800-221-4444
National Family Service Centre1800-838-0100
Singapore Association for Mental Health1800-283-7019
Care Corner Mandarin Counselling Centre1800-353-5800
Touchline (Touch Youth Service)1800-377-2252
Tinkle Friend: Children1800-274-4788 on weekdays

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 12:58 AM

sadfa

02-02-2016, 01:44 AM

What's the point of expressing deepest condolences?

Everyone involved should be investigated in an inquiry.
If their handling is proper, they should be absolved.
If not, proper disciplinary action should be taken.
The principal of the school should also explain why he allowed the boy to be taken away.

And yet, no amount of investigations can bring the boy back.
I hope his death will knock some sense into the heads of those high up in their ivory towerrs.

I have a son in secondary school. I can feel the pain experienced by the parents. But I do not have anything to say to them. Because nothing we say can lessen their pain and loss.

To countryman: hope you rot in hell for your careless initial remarks :-(

Wahlan you still don't get it!!

In a repressive dictatorship, the police drink drive, anyhow fire shots n accidentally kill yr kids, they express deepest condolences n give flowers very good liao.

If not, they'll shout at you. Cb. What you want!!
They'll even flash the same gun they used while screaming at you

And theres no inquiry ok.

As far as they are concerned, it's already case close.

It's obvious liao. You need them to explain to you?
You voted for these puki cbs. Time to repent.

The review is to see whether to improve interrogation system.
Even if they say need to improve, n imply present system is fucked up, the review's purpose is not to find fault with the police. Becos the police followed proper procedure. If procedure say can treat Benjamin like adult, they have no guilty conscience

At the most, coroner inquiry will say Benjamin traumatised by interrogation n kill himself.
The school n police will not b blamed ok.

You vote for these cb. They're not answerable to anybody.

Last time thugs send 5 ppl to your house at midnight to escort you for meeting. You refuse, they'll drag you out. Now they do this to kids.

sadfa

02-02-2016, 01:47 AM

I will support a COI for this. Similiar to Little India COI. This is the only way to know what happen throughout the process.

Make public the so-called CCTV too.

Coi lanjiao la.

They'll spend time saying superlatives about police la.

Good luck. Dictators are never answerable. You die, pls move away. Your corpse is an eyesore

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 01:53 AM

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12631565_1031816336879698_5309252649503150891_n.jp g?oh=24a4e4ebf2d0689625fa9c7bb201dadc&oe=57463D0D

https://www.facebook.com/358759327518739/photos/a.360220640705941.85354.358759327518739/1031816336879698/?type=3&theater

Lionel De Souza, the rabid PAP Grassroots Leader who had made threatening statements online against PAP's critics in the past, is an ambassador for the National Crime Prevention Council.

He has this to say in response to the death of a boy who took his own life after he was interrogated by the police unaccompanied by his parents for alleged molest.

FishyPartner

02-02-2016, 01:56 AM

Coi lanjiao la.

They'll spend time saying superlatives about police la.

Good luck. Dictators are never answerable. You die, pls move away. Your corpse is an eyesore

Why the combative stance? You run many discussions to a corner by your character flaw, a superior attitude. The concept of Übermensch, first proposed by Friedrich Nietzsche triggered the Nazi destructive movement.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 02:10 AM

Police to review interview procedure after death of student under molest probe

Yahoo Singapore

1 February 2016

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/police-to-review-procedure-after-death-of-student-151553037.html

The police will hold a procedural review whether to allow an adult to be present when they interview a young person, following the death of a 14-year-old student under investigation for outrage of modesty.

Benjamin Lim was found dead beneath Blk 316A Yishun Ave 9 last Tuesday afternoon (26 January). Earlier that day, he was brought into the police’s Ang Mo Kio Division to assist with investigations into the alleged offence reported on 25 January.

In a statement on Monday night (1 February), the police said Benjamin’s passing was “tragic” and have expressed their deepest condolences to the family.

The police “have met the family to address their questions on the case and provide clarifications on the actions of the Police officers during their interaction with Benjamin,” the statement said. They will “review and address” their interview procedures.

In a previous statement last Wednesday (27 January), the police said that throughout their interaction with Benjamin, he “did not exhibit any signs of being unduly distressed”.

The police also gave more details on the investigations into the alleged offence in their latest statement.

Police officers went in plainclothes and in unmarked cars to conduct enquires at a school to keep investigations discreet. Based on CCTV footage, Benjamin was identified and he was brought to the principal’s office by a school official and was spoken with in the presence of a police officer.

Before he was brought back to Ang Mo Kio Division, he contacted his mother to inform her about the investigations. The police officer also spoke to her.

While Benjamin was at Ang Mo Kio Division, he was interviewed by an investigation officer at his workstation in an open office, and was fully cooperative during the interview. He was then released on bail and went back with his mother.

Police investigations into his death have not been completed. A Coroner’s Inquiry will be held after the investigations are concluded.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 02:14 AM

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 02:53 AM

http://i67.tinypic.com/b4693q.png

http://i63.tinypic.com/2ai1w9g.png

http://www.edmw.xyz/forum/main-forum/264222-have-your-say-teen-death-in-yishun-raises-issue

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/%5Btoc-news%5D-%93you-say-i-am-guilty-i%92m-guilty-then-%94-boy-told-mom-b4-he-committed-suicide-5293405-54.html

http://www.northviewsec.moe.edu.sg/about-us/school-leaders

sadfa

02-02-2016, 03:08 AM

I think SPF feel very pressured to find evidence of deceased boy molesting girl and make him look guilty so as to mitigate public outrage against SPF.

If deceased boy is innocent of molest, will SPF announce his innocence or keep silent? But this will make public even more enrage.

It was like Little India Riots. If civilians were killed and women raped at the riots, will the Government declare or keep silent since it was near GE2015?

:confused::confused:

Your posts still very poor. No improvements la.
Learn la.

Of cos they got evidence!!!
The cctv definitely will show something.

If show nothing, only a dumbass will send 5 cops to question Benjamin over nothing. if that's the case all should b sacked

The issue is if the cctv show Benjamin clearly grabbing boobs, there's no need to interrogate him for 3 hours to get a confession, becos nothing he says in court will save him.

The problem is if the cctv show horseplay n they know each other, then there's no molest.

This exposes the fucked up attitude of spf n how they see n do things.

Learn ok!!

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 03:20 AM

Sunday, September 09, 2007

Singapore police sends 4 riot buses to deal with Ultraman?

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/2007/09/singapore-polic.html

A group of 8 young people who wanted to protest against local anime distributor Odex's legal actions decided to stage a protest... with their toys... at *Scape, a youth park. The idea was to stage a demonstration with their toys and do a photo shoot at *Scape (Slogan for the youth park: Feel the Space. Fill the Space).

Their project, called the People’s Action Figures Party, was met by 4 "Ang Chia", or riot buses, from the Special Operations Command. Yes, a whole bunch of cops dropped by their party.

You know lah, these action figures and toys, when they stage a protest, you never know if things will get ugly and they start using their superpowers and laser beams. So it is important to send the right show of force to keep the supertoys in line.

A police officer from Tanglin division asked them questions and took down the names and identity card info of the participants (but did not take down the particulars of the toys) and also videotaped the youngsters as they conducted their toy protest photo shoot.

But by Zer0's account, they were allowed to complete their shoot and at no time did the police intimidate them (I suppose the police officer videotaped them in a friendly way?).

It is so important for law and order to maintained, because, you know, although you might be well-behaved, someone might want to conduct political debate with one of your protesting toys, say, He-Man, and then there will be a potential for public disturbance and civil disobedience, if he calls upon the Power of Greyskull.

You can read their accounts here and here. The incident was not reported in local media, but you can read the Reuters report.

(Photos from Zer0 and Pp's blog)

Singapore: Feel the Space. Fill the Space.

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/images/2007/09/09/ultraman.jpg

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/images/2007/09/09/mistakesofyouth009.jpg

sadfa

02-02-2016, 03:48 AM

Why was the police involved if it is a minor? I thought children under certain age are not supposed to be in police custody. I share my own experience.

Many years ago after PSLE I was posted to a neighborhood secondary school. Many of my friends from primary were also posted there too so naturally we became quite a close knit group. We would often play soccer at the basketball court of the nearby CC after school. Nearby to the CC was an ITE. Some of their students would also play soccer at the basketball court sometimes and we always give each other space. However, one day due to some misunderstanding both of our groups clashed. It was a blur and I can only remember more than twenty of us students fighting each other. The police came and teachers from our school and the ITE also came to the scene. The police separated us and then wanted to bring us all back to the police station. Our school discipline master stopped them and refused to let us go up the police vans. After making a few phone calls he told the police inspector in charge to take the call and listen to orders.

We did not go to the police station. Instead all of us were brought to the CC's Boys club and told to remain inside while they investigated the matter. This was done by the CC staff and the school teachers from both our school / ITE. The police were told to stay outside and not involved.

End of the day none of the students involved were brought back to the police station although we each got a public caning during school assembly. It was during this incident that I also learnt from the CC manager that the police cannot arrest children under a certain age. I am sure the law has not been changed although more than 20 yrs ago.

Of cos they can arrest children.
Overseas, children got rape n even murder others and they were arrested n sentenced.

Your school did the right thing.
There are many si ginna who fight, shoplift etc.
All of this are crimes n they can be charged in court.

But there's no need to do all these n give them a record.
Worst case scenario suspend or kickout the student.
Not condemn the student.

I'm sure many si ginna like you think back, will be grateful to their school for giving them a chance n not giving up on them.

This school failed Benjamin.
The government come, they gift wrap the student for them. N no lamparji. Need to collect questions.
What can they teach their students? Follow government obediently n no lamparji also?

The school should standby Benjamin even if he's guilty.
As if kicking him out will help him n make him a better person

Max77

02-02-2016, 03:53 AM

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 04:12 AM

The cctv footage will never be shown to public that's for sure. I reckoned only a handful of those from the force who saw the cctv footage would know the truth, whether it's a clear cut molestation or not

If it was true that he went into the lift and molest a girl, God bless wad that boy will be capable of thereafter

Sometime when a person was caught red handed also die die will deny, out of fear or guilt

What (the most of us) we are concerned is whether the protocol taken in such incident can be much better and sensitive in the future. A person who jump and die not necessarily mean he is not guilty

Also to shift some attention to the girl who was molested. Having her molester committed suicide would have double impact on her life

You are speculating without evidence. Please remember, the dead boy was only a suspect.

On paper, the present status is the dead boy is not guilty of molest because the dead boy did not go through the legal process. So we should work from this status.

The dead boy's parents did not trust the Media to give their side of the story so went to TOC instead. The Media did lean towards SPF.

From the dead boy's family side of story, there are hints the dead boy was coerced by SPF to admit guilt under duress of interrogation. The family claim the dead boy insisted he was not guilty.

SPF naturally will deny this. This then became an issue of saving face and SPF's image.

It is a deadlock and will remain unresolved because the key person is dead already. This is so even if the girl insisted the dead boy molested her and it is even more important now the girl need to insist the dead boy molested her so as to save everybody's face. SPF will now turn attention to girl.

For CCTV, it must show clearly dead boy molested girl which I think did not hence the 3 hours long interrogation. SPF might be fustrated by the lack of clear evidence from CCTV. CCTV becomes the key.

Regardless, even if the dead boy did molest the girl, the entire process from school to interrogation was wrong. These are two separate buckets of issues.

For molest case, we let the Judical system decide.

For process of school to interrogation, the dead boy's family demand answers and maybe justice be served.

kt88_2

02-02-2016, 04:42 AM

To he fair, if cctv really show the boy molesred ghe girl.don ned interview can straight away fharge.Becos they cannog find anything thats why they interrogate.but this time round , tge police too much liao.Police sjoild allow parents inside.Now someyhing gappened, all tty yo vovef up as usual by our garment.Little insia roits all likd cowards ran yo hide, knn 1 kid n all act macho.Sad 70 percent ask for it.

kt88_2

02-02-2016, 04:46 AM

Simple just ask the police make the cctv public if thrre are wrong doing.but i doubt that garment will agree as their style is keep quiet when wrong.also too many foreigners as PR in police force.

sammyboyfor

02-02-2016, 04:55 AM

This kid is obviously mentally weak. Had he not killed himself over this issue he would have committed suicide over something else later in life.

It has happened. Now let's move on.

sadfa

02-02-2016, 05:02 AM

Simple just ask the police make the cctv public if thrre are wrong doing.but i doubt that garment will agree as their style is keep quiet when wrong.also too many foreigners as PR in police force.

Wahlan. You don't know how they work.

They'll say cctv show minor so you cannot see.
If they really show cctv they'll mosaic so much you think you're watching the 2 pandas in mandai wrestling.

If cctv show nothing they'll say the ger unusually convincing in interview. But you can't know details cos she's minor

Welcome to this shithole fake country where everything is government say wan. You just diam diam.

And since these 5 cops so brave, spore need them.
I nominate them in frontline of the next Bangla Prc riot or when IS attack.

sadfa

02-02-2016, 05:03 AM

This kid is obviously mentally weak. Had he not killed himself over this issue he would have committed suicide over something else later in life.

It has happened. Now let's move on.

You must have obtained the governments media release beforehand

Max77

02-02-2016, 05:25 AM

sammyboyfor

02-02-2016, 06:12 AM

You must have obtained the governments media release beforehand

Nothing to do with media releases I'm speaking from my own experience.

When I was a kid I ended up in police custody numerous times for gang fights, cycling without lights at night and for trespassing.

During the period when Singapore was part of Malaysia the police were quite brutal. I was assaulted while in a police cell with a punch to the stomach for being insolent and refusing to answer questions.

I never contemplated suicide. In fact those of us who went through these sorts of baptisms of fire came out a lot stronger.

Kids nowadays are pathetic. They need to toughen up.

wings4me

02-02-2016, 07:21 AM

sammyboyfor

02-02-2016, 07:48 AM

Knn uncle sam, u are saying he is weak, he will be weak all his life,
he is a thief, means he will be a thief all his life?
then why need to raise kids, he is bad he will be bad all his life, then just locked up all those bad kids, then society will left with the good people.
please lah, some people are late bloomers.
why are they call kids, why do we need to take care, protect and nuture the youngs? The kids need time to grow up, need time to know what is right, need to to become stronger, smarter, wiser.

The best way to bring up kids is to put them through hardship. It will make them stronger.

Protecting them just turns them into sissies and lazy spoilt brats.

Johnbass

02-02-2016, 07:59 AM

makeITbark

02-02-2016, 09:03 AM

UP you for good post!
SI GINNAs nowadays...
:D

Balls carrier spotted !!!!!!
Only those without balls will do that...
:D

After so long still BOJI to reply me....
SI GAO nowadays...
:D

Max77

02-02-2016, 09:13 AM

Evolution, cant blame anybody. Not as if those strawberries get to chose how they are. Even the elephant size became smaller so are their trunks less tough

It does take some courage to commit suicide. Too bad he wasnt rescued in time, if not most likely a very good turning point for him

Somehow the idea of 'going to die' has been 'injected' into his head. Idea maybe from media maybe from his parent/teachers. Normal majority wont think of going to die just like that unless under influence of drugs

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 09:04 PM

Those police officers follow protocols. If protocol says send 5 men, 5 men will go. Unless u the police chief? know they not following protocol? If dont follow protocol follow wad? Next time they ask you better? U give instruction ok?

Even a clear cut case also must bring in to question, not bcoz wanna tekan hard hard for confession but to see if theres still something which was left out during investigation. Video proof also cannot 100%. Video can be tempered and sometime misleading also. If u change the angle to look at it, bringing him in is for a slight possible chance that he is innocence- instead of judging just by the video which I believe at one glance he wasn't?

Now the only thing that was super clear is that the school which suppose to show concern or at least could have protect or help that boy appear didnt even give a flying fuck about 5 plain clothes bringing one of their student back for questioning. Maybe he got history of bad conduct?

U see I use question marks aplenty here bcoz maybe my broken English cannot make clear to u my points. Jump and die doesnt mean he is not guilty- this sentence doesnt mean he IS guilty! Speculate ur flying head!

I guess you did not read what dead boy family said. Spend some time reading before commenting.

Bad conduct students will be in NPCC and allow to go School Camp? Most of his school peers that visited his funeral do not have bad things to say about dead boy.

You are just blindly saying things to fit your own arguments. It was not protocol to send 5 police officers to get a suspected student.

Base on real life accounts of different netizens arrested by police when they were minors, it was mixed number. It was not always 5 police officers.

This is the crux of this thread. It is not about dead boy guilty or not but about the entire process from school to interrogation which was questionable. SPF is not helping things by being vague about the process.

It is all speculation whether the dead boy is guilty or not because dead people tell no tales. This case will forever be unresolved. SPF said he confessed. Dead boy family said he confessed under duress and he admit he did not do it.

What you said about CCTV not clear and thus dead boy was interrogated was the same thing I said.

kt88_2

02-02-2016, 09:41 PM

There is 1 law which i don like in , u a can see in the news, like recently 1 PR engr cug queue in mrt.then yaya challenge 1 nsf.The nsf tulan punch him.Then the nsf got fine.U see here , the stupid garment use this law n end up many foreigners come here yaya, cos they know the law.So if ppl yaya n in the wrong told u off , will u keep quiet or punch them .U decide, i gave up on the 70 % long ago.Stupid citizen choose stupid ppl.If in taiwan , US these yaya foreigner will kana whack upside down and the malaysian chinese come herd also yaya n when they back in malaysia they timid like mouse scare tge malays whack them . U all see n judge for yourself. If this case is dealt by opposition they will have a heart when dealing with this. Life is precious , sad for yhe parents as they are totally tear apart losing a kid they brought.If the kid done any wrong should tell him n guide him on whats right n wrong. Maybe he just want to make friend with the girl but wrong approach .Thats why the police havd no proof on cctv , if hv proof thry will straight away charge.Tell the spf to show the cctv clip on TV, if tyey want to shos fairness. Think wisely, some laws are stupid, stupid laws created to protect the papigs.
Tks to thd 70 percent.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 09:51 PM

Where is the compassion?

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/where-is-the-compassion/

By onlinecitizen on February 2, 2016 Letters

By Zarina Jaffar

Like any other loving mummy, my heart bleeds reading the death of young Benjamin and the event surrounding it before he decided to take his life in a spur of a moment. In a confused state, in a daze and shame…

I don’t want to politicize this matter except to highlights the severity of not handling a susceptible young person wisely. The policemen, The school, The counselor all now need to reflect and ask themselves if this matters could have been handled better?

I just had a talk with my son, 18 years old who told me whether guilty or not if he has to be taken away by five plainclothes policemen; he definitely would be scared. Imagine the fear of a 14-year-old boy?

Suddenly taken out of his school compound without being accompanied by a familiar face. How frightened must he have been? To be with five stranger namely the Policeman and that must have strike fear in him.

“You say I am guilty, I’m guilty then.”……Doesn’t all this sound too familiar? Put under pressure how do you expect a 14-year-old boy feeling lost and helpless to react? He is resigned to his fate. He must have been felt threatened and could not think properly.

The only time he needs his mummy by his side he was denied that right by the investigator. I perfectly understand that his parents should not be sitting with him during investigations, but definitely, a familiar face like a teacher or counsellor could have at least accompanied him till the Police Station.

To the investigators, hello you are not a psychiatrist and what makes u think the boy is fine and that he never show any symptoms of distress?

To add salt to injury, the school had the cheeks to call up the boy and told him not to attend the camp which he so much looking forward to it.

Why wasn’t he allowed to attend camp? Has he already been judged by the school?

Shouldn’t the school make an attempt to clarify with Benjamin himself and give him an assurance of the school support? This is the right thing for an educator to do. The school refusal to let Benjamin attend the camp may have made him feel all hope is lost and that he has been judged guilty even without a trial. Where is the professionalism, the ethics?

Benjamin already feeling the pressure of the earlier incidents may have felt helpless and intimidated at that moment that no one is going to believe in him, that his future looks bleak, that he has let everyone down. He is not in a position to handle such major crises in his life and yet no one seems to be there for him when he needs a listening ears. One can only imagine what is going trough his young mind when he took that drastic actions to end his life.

To Benjamin’s parents, no words are enough to release you from your pain. Your boy is a good son. Society, rules and order are cruel towards him. May Benjamin soul rest in peace.

To the Policemen, Principal, Vice Principal, Counsellor, what you fail to do when Benjamin is alive, put it right in his death. His parents need closure. There is no need to give excuses and get defensive. A wrong can never be right if it is wrong. Give the much-needed closure that Benjamin’s parents now and the answer they are seeking. That is the most honourable things you guys can do now, but the burden of guilt will always be yours to deal with.

To the Ministry of Education, please take a personal interest in this case and assist Benjamin parents to come to terms with their loss.

To the society, let’s show our love and support to Benjamin parents in their hours of needs especially with the upcoming Chinese New year. I similarly lost a loved one eight years ago. But the pain of what Benjamin parents is going trough, none of us will ever understand.

kt88_2

02-02-2016, 09:52 PM

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 09:54 PM

14-year-old’s death spurs a mother to speak up on son’s similar experience

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/14-year-olds-death-spurs-a-mother-to-speak-up-on-sons-similar-experience/

By onlinecitizen on February 2, 2016 Social Justice

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/policequestioning-702x336.jpg

After the case of 14-year-old, Benjamin Lim was reported by TOC, a mother has written in to share her story of her son. Although not alleged of the same offence and circumstances, however, her son went through the same experience of having to be unaccompanied in a police interview.

She shared that an unresolved offence that took place in her son’s school last year resulted in a police report made after the victim’s parents were unhappy over the lack of investigation by the school on the matter. The school could not identify the perpetrator of the offence through the closed-circuit television recording (CCTV)

After the offence took place, Three uniformed police officer went down to the school to investigate and identified Tom (not his real name), her 13-year-old son through the CCTV as the person who committed the offence.

Initially, they had wanted to bring him to the police station for questioning but was disallowed by the school, as they would need to seek the parent’s permission. However, the mother was not informed of the questioning by the police.

Tom was questioned alone throughout the questioning procedure at school by different police officers as his teachers were not allowed to be with him. (The standard procedure as police were afraid that the adult would hamper the search for truth)

Tom eventually acknowledged to the offence as the CCTV show that evident of his action and was made to sign on the document by the police officers. After the questioning, the school called and informed his mum. But by that time, it was too late her to react.

When he got back home, he was very quiet and sad. The mother described him as being visibly guilty over his action. After much questioning from his mum, he revealed to her that it was a frightening the experience to him. At this point, he broke down and cried. The mother could not collect any information from him as he was unclear and did not know what he was talking about.

The mother said, “I was very upset with the school for not informing me even though I wasn’t allowed to be with my boy, but at least, I’m there physically to assure him that everything is alright, kind of moral support for him, not easy to for a 13 years old kid to overcome this alone.”

“Yes, he made a mistake and I’m not defending him. He needs to be punished but not in this way, as his offence happened in school and I would prefer the school to deal with it. Unfortunately, the police was involved because the school couldn’t resolve.”

“Can’t imagine him taking a bus home alone and wondering what happen? How to explain to his parent? If he has a weak mind, what would he do?will he run away from home as he afraid that parent will reprimand him?

All these questions were running in my mind, at that point of time. He was very traumatised by the event and cried once he reached home, he told me that was his first time facing so many police.”

She relates her son’s experience with Benjamin’s case, “I can imagine how Benjamin felt at that time. They should not be alone with the police, If it happened to me, as an adult I’ll be frightened let alone a kid. “Like Benjamin’s parent, we also have no clue what’s going on. I went to the police station twice to gather more information as the teacher wasn’t able to provide any. That’s the frustrating part!”

On the issue of signing the police statement, the mother said, “I thought the legal person should be at the age of 21 to sign any document but not a 13-year-old boy.” She added, “I couldn’t comprehend the way they handle the situation, they are still kids. How could they allow a minor to sign any legal document before age 21.”

When the parents went down to the police station to have their statement taken and to be explained about Tom’s alleged offence, the mother questioned the police about having Tom to sign the statement as he was only 13-years-old.

The police replied her by citing the police code of conduct that the son can sign on the statement first and later acknowledged by the parents.

It was a stressful experience for the whole family throughout the period waiting for his verdict and eventually Tom was given a warning letter for the offence that he had confessed to.

The mother was also upset as the police report is due to the attitude of the teacher who handled the investigation of the offence, which eventually led to the son’s experience.

She had asked the principal why was the police able to identify the culprit but the investigating teacher could not and whether if the teacher had seriously viewed the footage. However, the principal had constantly reassure her that the teacher did put in the effort but unfortunately couldn’t identity.

She says that she did not get any closure from the school as a parent till now she still can’t understand what lead to the police being involved. The mother wrote that it would be better if she was allowed to view the cctv recording.

The principal is said to be very supportive towards the recommended guidance programme of Tom, through the issuing of the warning letter. The mother said, “I feel so bad over Benjamin’s case, I should have press on and complaint to MOE (Ministry of Education) but I didn’t.” As a parent, I’ve given the school a chance by not blowing the issue out of proportion but did the school give the student a chance in Benjamin case?

The mother hopes that the MOE and the Singapore Police Force will look into Benjamin’s case properly before another life is lost.

Note – Please refer to the original case and note that while Benjamin confessed to the police that he committed the offence, but he denied of the charge against him to his mother.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 09:56 PM

Personal accounts highlight systematic issue with police procedure and practices

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/personal-accounts-highlight-systematic-issue-with-police-procedure-and-practices/

By onlinecitizen on February 2, 2016 Social Justice

In response to the case of 14-year-old Benjamin Lim, individuals have started to speak up about their past experience and voice out against the systematic issue that the Singapore Police Force might have with its policing protocols, .

Below are some accounts of individuals sharing their personal experience or as a family member on encounters with the police. The names are not revealed for their privacy but their accounts are viewable publicly as the comments were posted on Facebook comment threads and forums. More will be published later.

Personal account #1

I’m not defending the boy, but I was once in this same situation where I was brought into Jurong Police Station for investigation for case report against me.

During the interrogation, 2 to 3 different officers question me with a stern voice, threatening tone and raising their voice occasionally. They had already assume that I had committed the crime and just forcing me to admit. I still remember they keep repeating this sentence saying: Come on lah, stop lying, I can tell that you are lying!!!

They could not get anything out from me and I was able to name a couple of witnesses. I was put into a holding area behind BAR not allowing to talk to anyone.

And only after few hours I was bailed out by my sister. The witness had given their statement matching what I had said, but they still do not release me. That the way they work.

Personal account #2

I experience with Investigation Officer (IO) from J division; they came to my house to take my son for statement when they know the parents (were) not at home. They ask my son to open the gate and one of the plain officer come inside my house like burglar go inside my son room and confiscate my son hp without any warrant, entering ppl house they are are suck when doing their work.

Personal account #3

I experienced the same treatment as Benjamin when I was 13 years old by the police in Singapore. As my group of friends were caught in a fight with another group at a shopping mall, I was arrested together with them even when I did not get involved in the brawl.

Same experience as Benjamin…no adult presence when I was interrogated by three policemen in a room, was handcuffed in public and in the interrogation room, was escorted into a police car in full public view. The policemen didn’t even bother listening to my pleas of not being involved.

I was locked up in a prison cell at a police station for half a day and released only after midnight, even though my parents were already there many hours ago. They pressured me to sign a confession form without my parents’ presence and threatened me that if I don’t sign the form, I will be locked up for much longer. Only after all papers have been signed, then they released me to see my parents. Of course, my parents were displeased when I told them the truth and they pursued this case all the way to the ministry. Only then my file was dropped from records.

I understand how poor little Benjamin must have felt…i felt like my future has been ruined and suicide did cross my mind back then. Luckily the case was dropped by the police after my parents’ perseverance to see justice done. Otherwise, I would probably be a wreck of a child then.

Family member’s account

My brother has been interrogated by police before for petty crime when he was very young. He said that the way the police interrogated as if he had committed a murder. I do not know whether the police did this was to scare the minor so that they will not repeat their mistake. Probably it is more advisable if a minor is being interrogated, a social worker or councillor sits in. He/She is there not to interfere with the investigation but to ensure the police not to use ‘intimidating’ or ‘threatening’ way of questioning.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 09:59 PM

MOE: Schools obligated to cooperate with police and not stand in the way of law

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/moe-schools-obligated-to-cooperate-with-police-and-not-stand-in-the-way-of-law/

By onlinecitizen on February 2, 2016 Current Affairs

The Ministry of Education (MOE) said on Tuesday that schools in Singapore have the obligation to cooperate with the police and “not stand in the way of law”, but will seek to ensure the well-being of its students if they assist with police investigations.

This is in response to media queries about the case of Benjamin Lim, a 14-year-old boy who was found dead at the foot of the block of his family flat in Yishun after being questioned by the police, unaccompanied over a case of alleged outrage of modesty. The mother had told TOC that the police had denied access to her son, Benjamin throughout the course of interview.

MOE said through its spokeperson that the schools have a set of guidelines “which corresponds to the police’s guidelines on working with minors”

“This includes ascertaining the identities of the police officers who approach our schools,” MOE said. The ministry also explained that the school would speak to its student before the police speaks with him or her.

“The student’s parent or appointed guardian is also contacted before the student leaves with the police to assist in investigations. We will also ensure that our student is not hungry and has something to eat before leaving with the police,”

MOE added that its schools will keep the student’s identity and the nature of the case strictly confidential to protect the student’s privacy and dignity.

“While the student is assisting in police investigations, the school will continue to keep in contact with the student and the parent/guardian to render the necessary support,” MOE said.

To understand more about the case, you can read the interview that TOC conducted with the family.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 10:13 PM

Nothing to do with media releases I'm speaking from my own experience.

When I was a kid I ended up in police custody numerous times for gang fights, cycling without lights at night and for trespassing.

During the period when Singapore was part of Malaysia the police were quite brutal. I was assaulted while in a police cell with a punch to the stomach for being insolent and refusing to answer questions.

I never contemplated suicide. In fact those of us who went through these sorts of baptisms of fire came out a lot stronger.

Kids nowadays are pathetic. They need to toughen up.

“Riot squad brutally beats up a group of unarmed students on 13 May 1954” incident

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/01/riot-squad-brutally-beats-up-a-group-of-unarmed-students-on-13-may-1954-incident/

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/nationalserviceprotest.jpg

Many would recall the National Service riot in 1954 which was taught in Singapore history textbook. The official narrative goes about like this,

“Singapore’s earliest attempt to introduce compulsory conscription in 1952 was vigorously resisted by the Chinese middle school students. On 13 May 1954, violence erupted when hundreds of students clashed with the police. As a result, 26 people were injured and 45 students arrested. The National Service Riots marked the beginning of intense communist subversion in the Chinese middle schools, which subsequently became the breeding ground for communist sympathisers in Singapore.”

In this episode of “History of Singapore”, Dr Thum Ping Tjin explains the long history of government deceit that led to this act of colonial brutality and its impact on Singapore’s decolonisation.

On 13 May 1954, the Singapore Police’s Riot Squad charged into a group of 900 unarmed students, brutally beating them, sending 30 to the hospital and arresting 48. The students were not protesting, but were quietly awaiting the outcome of a meeting at nearby Government House. This incident was a turning point in Singapore history – never before had the state conducted such unprovoked and outrageous violence against unarmed students. Worse, in the wake of the incident, the colonial government blamed the students for provoking the riot squad.

Dr Thum Ping Tjin, a Singaporean historian who is a Research Associate at the Centre for Global History and co-ordinator of Project Southeast Asia at the University of Oxford. Planned as a series of 40 episodes, the podcast will cover Singapore’s founding as a British port in 1819 up to separation from Malaysia in 1963. Each episode is about 20 – 30 minutes long. Dr Thum has set up a Patreon page for those interested in supporting and helping him improve the podcast.

To support the pod, visit patreon.com/pjthum.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 10:29 PM

Petitioning Singapore Police Force and 2 others
Ensure protection of minors' rights during police investigations

https://www.change.org/p/ensure-protection-of-minors-during-police-investigations?recruiter=44442494&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

We, the undersigned, are saddened to hear of the tragic death of 14-year-old Benjamin Lim, who was found dead under his flat on the same day after he was questioned, arrested and released on bail by the police for an alleged outrage of modesty offence.

Benjamin was taken from his school to Ang Mo Kio Police Division Headquarters for questioning by five plainclothes policemen. He was not accompanied by anyone from the school, nor did the police wait until his mother had made her way to the school to see her son.

Benjamin’s case has highlighted the fact that current police protocol does not require minors to be accompanied by a parent, guardian or lawyer during interrogation.

We are encouraged to hear that the police are reviewing their own procedures when it comes to cases involving minors. We would like to express our support for this review, and hope that it will result in minors being accompanied by their legal counsel or at least a trained counsellor during questioning.

We would also like to urge the Singapore government to amend our legislation to provide clear definitions as to the age limits under which one would be considered a child. Under the Convention of the Rights of the Child (CRC), which Singapore has signed, a child is defined as anyone below the age of 18.

Currently, under Singapore law, a child is defined as being below the age of 14, with individuals between the age of 14 and 16 being defined as “young persons”, which is not in line with the definition as set out in the CRC.

We believe that transparency is important when it comes to police investigations, especially when minors are involved.

To that end, we support the police’s piloting of video recordings during questioning, and urge Parliament to pass legislation that would require mandatory video recordings of all police interrogations.

LETTER TO
Singapore Police Force
Ministry of Home Affairs
Ministry of Law
Ensure minors are protected during investigations in Singapore

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 10:31 PM

February 2nd, 2016
AWARE statement on the rights of minors in criminal investigations

http://www.aware.org.sg/2016/02/aware-statement-on-the-rights-of-minors-in-criminal-investigations/

We are deeply saddened by the death of Benjamin Lim. We offer our best wishes and condolences to his family and friends at this difficult time.

While we cannot ultimately know why this young boy ended his life, the case raises troubling questions about the treatment of minors who come into contact with the criminal justice system.

As a group that works with people who have experienced sexual assault, AWARE is concerned about the rights and welfare of any children who may be involved in sexual assault investigations, whether as complainants, suspects or witnesses.

As a party to the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), Singapore has an obligation in international law to make the best interests of the child a primary consideration in all state dealings with any child.

This includes cases where a child is alleged or accused to have committed a criminal offence – a stressful and difficult experience even for the most confident adult.

AWARE welcomes the announcement by SPF that it will review the procedure for police interviews of young people, and urges SPF to draw from international best practice in this area.

The Victoria Police in Australia, for instance, can only interview under-18s if a parent, guardian or other support person is present.

Moreover, the SPF should be responsible for ensuring that emotional and psychological support is available to all minors (and their carers) who come into contact with the criminal justice system.

Only recently, the Law Society called for accused persons in general to have early access to counsel. This need applies with even more urgency to vulnerable individuals such as minors.

Finally, we believe it is extremely important that the police take complaints of sexual assault seriously. But any investigation must take place with due regard for the rights of suspects.

Victims of sexual assault want to see fairness and accountability in the criminal process. In many cases, the perpetrators is someone previously known to them.

If there is a general perception that criminal investigations may be unduly harsh or traumatic, especially for minors, this may deter victims from reporting. It is in everyone’s interest that criminal investigations respect the rights of suspects.

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 10:33 PM

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12651210_1533593130272397_7983693058305587001_n.jp g?oh=10c990fa58aa705f22ed1670eb27b65e&oe=57439A15

sensualshirley

02-02-2016, 11:21 PM

Singapore gt so bad meh... or that guy drama drama 1...?

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 11:24 PM

Singapore gt so bad meh... or that guy drama drama 1...?

I dont understand your question. Maybe you should read from page 1.

It will come in handy when your loved ones get summon by SPF.

That drama drama guy is already dead.

It is the job of Government to market themselves as perfect. It is not the job of citizens to believe the marketing.

sadfa

02-02-2016, 11:31 PM

Singapore gt so bad meh... or that guy drama drama 1...?

Spore is not a country or a democracy.

Wad happened to Benjamin can happen to anybody including you becos they were lying when they said everyone matters.

99,9% of sporeans don't matter. The balance is the elite n they'll b protected.

sensualshirley

02-02-2016, 11:36 PM

ExBros

02-02-2016, 11:42 PM

Why the 2 of u so evil 1...
.
.

den u 2 keep saying what my love one or i die...or get catch by police... i also nv do anything funny or say u 2 bad... go away la...

i not talking to u 2 already... :(:(:(

Lol! U soooo cute sia!

sadfa

02-02-2016, 11:49 PM

Why the 2 of u so evil 1... i say drama drama nt say the boy Benjamin la... i say Kuasimi... like post everything is Singapore bad 1 nv gd...

den u 2 keep saying what my love one or i die...or get catch by police... i also nv do anything funny or say u 2 bad... go away la...

i not talking to u 2 already... :(:(:(

In spore, you don't need to be a criminal for them to whack you good good. It's called political persecution.

It's impossible to not commit any crime in spore
Jaywalkin oso crime.
You download something no copyright oso crime.

Because you have no rights, they can investigate you secretly n blow a small thing up.

If they see you keep your nude photos in your HP or tablet, they n the cb press will portray you as some corruptor of kids cos if kids see how?? And smear you all the way

If you vote for these ccb, time to repent liao

kuasimi

02-02-2016, 11:50 PM

Max77

03-02-2016, 12:23 AM

I guess you did not read what dead boy family said. Spend some time reading before commenting.

where got time so free read up newspaper? I tell u lah the more exciting they write the more people read they win liao. True or not use ur kar chng think alrdy will knw

What you said about CCTV not clear and thus dead boy was interrogated was the same thing I said.

u bloody like to put words into people mouth knn. I say EVEN if the video shows 100% he is guilty, they also need to dig further so that in hope to find out as much as possible to get the whole damn bloody truth as much as possible. Video clear or not idk if u got chance see plse share with us thk you much much

Ysatis

03-02-2016, 03:07 AM

sg police all buay sai 1

sadfa

03-02-2016, 05:04 AM

sg police all buay sai 1

Since on which day they eh sai?

Versus 14 yr old kid, 5 turn up at school to take him in.
Versus little India rioters who want to kill bus driver, all waiting for seal team six to chiong down before turning up. 100 km away.

Kidnappers distract parents or make sure parents not around before take kid.
5 cops go school when parents not around before take kid.

And don't forget pai kar terrorist can walk to freedom wearing his fucking orange jumpsuit in broad daylight and need neighbour to tell police eh you lost your terrorist ar. You want him back bo?

And still brag they eh sai n got trust of people.

Copperfield

03-02-2016, 09:07 AM

countryman

03-02-2016, 11:06 AM

FuLuShou

03-02-2016, 11:59 AM

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 02:24 PM

Someone jumps, everyone blames the police. But the last hour or so, the boy was actually with his mother rite? Anyone knows whay happened then? Police catch molester wrong? If my daughter is molested and she pointed out that boy, if bloody hell police don't bring back, I think I sure smack his face.

You are sick in the mind and out of point like countryman. You did not read what the dead boy's family said before commenting.

The dead boy's family said he did not do it and he was coerced to plead guilty by police.

You want to play Judge and pronounce the dead boy guilty when even the authorities did not say so?

You deserve to stay in a place where there is no Judicial System and no trials. A place whereby authorities are always right and if they say you are guilty, you must be guilty. Your paradises include North Korea, ISIS and China.

When you get summon by police, stick to your own words and be quiet if the police say you are guilty.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 02:28 PM

Just one case, changes will happened. Police will have tough time in future.

Judging from online sharing by netizens of past incidences involving SPF, it seems past 50 years, SPF interrogation methods of the citizens did not change much and remain consistent. But nobody committed suicide like this boy thus it remained as coffeeshop chitchat only.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 02:34 PM

u bloody like to put words into people mouth knn. I say EVEN if the video shows 100% he is guilty, they also need to dig further so that in hope to find out as much as possible to get the whole damn bloody truth as much as possible. Video clear or not idk if u got chance see plse share with us thk you much much

Then to be fair, you should read before commenting.

SPF did not even charge the boy after 3 hours of interrogation which means the CCTV was not conclusive and did not clearly show any molest incident involving the boy.

The crux of this thread was how did SPF dig further truth from the dead boy.

It seems from the dead boy's family, the dead boy was bullied and coerced by SPF to admit guilt but the dead boy told family he did not do it.

As conclude, it is SPF's words versus dead boy's family words. Who is telling the truth, nobody will ever know because nobody is showing the CCTV SPF said they have and nobody video recorded the entire interrogation process.

If the school has any conscience and since the school saw the CCTV, the school should make third party statements about the truth of the CCTV. What exactly did the CCTV show?

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 02:40 PM

Uneven playing field of Singapore politics and law, a cause for concern to every citizen

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/uneven-playing-field-of-singapore-politics-and-law-a-cause-for-concern-to-every-citizen/

By onlinecitizen on February 3, 2016 Letters

The below is a letter submitted to The Online Citizen

By Sum Wee Lee

I refer to the ongoing saga of the most unfortunate loss of a secondary 3 student after being interviewed and possibly, coerced by the State’s police into making a confession without any Guardian or Counsel around to dispense advise. More so when an individual is under 18 years of age.

I would like to share a perspective I observed while exiting Bugis MRT last Wednesday at about 9.30pm. I witnessed 6 policemen rounding up a skinny middle-aged Chinese guy for no apparent reason. They then proceeded to restraint him to the parapet ledge near the Station Control and begin to search him. All these were done in plain sight of the curious onlooking public. I felt compelled to take a video or at least a photo of the manner which the incident transpired but was spotted by 1 of the policemen who threatened to seize my phone and detain me citing the “public order act”.

Now puzzled, I wonder what really constitutes a “public order” incident as I merely wanted to generate photographic evidence to present to the public service commission and ask them if they agreed that police be rendered such extensive powers to humiliate a member of the public under the guise of security. As it turned out, there was nothing and the man was freed grudgingly.

The current uneven playing field of our politics and law should be a cause for concern to every citizen. Today its Benjamin, tomorrow, it might be your Jimmy, John or Joseph a brother, cousin or even classmate. I felt it’s compulsory that the “public order act” be scrutinized in light of Benjamin’s death as far too much power is given to Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) without any justification and abuses to the system will become more rampant as the government turns to the “war on terror” as the basis for such powers which is a different case and context altogether.

I distinctively remembered then NCMP Ms Sylvia Lim opposing the “public order bill“, which she felt “will actually become the source of public order problems”. Remember, the more oppressive a regime, the more violent it shall be overthrown. E.g. Myanmar and soon to be neighboring Malaysia, not to mention the “Arab Spring”.

I hope society as a whole together with our honorable members of Parliament will in coming weeks, search their conscience and ask if this was what the voters had in mind when they mandated the ruling party to govern with such autocratic and iron fist that is now extended even to our ignorant youths and minors. We must press MHA to come clean on Benjamin’s needless death and not allow them to hide under the shroud of “Official Secret Act (OSA)” which must be torn down by us sooner or later.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 02:41 PM

The police could show more compassion and finesse in dealing with teenagers

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/the-police-could-show-more-compassion-and-finesse-in-dealing-with-teenagers/

By onlinecitizen on February 3, 2016 Commentaries

By Yoong Siew Wah

The tragic suicide of a 14-year-old teenager Benjamin Lim has struck a raw nerve among Singaporeans about questionable police methods of interrogation of teenagers. The manner in which Benjamin Lim was hauled from his school by five burly plainclothes police officers for a suspected molestation offence for interrogation could not but cause consternation to the public by the display of excessive intimidatory tactics by the police. The question uppermost in the public mind is whether it was necessary to send such massive police manpower to the school in the first place to deal with a minor? Was it not a clear case of wasteful use of resources when a single police officer would have been more than adequate.

At the police station, Benjamin Lim was subjected to more than three hours of interrogation without any of his guardian being present. He was released after interrogation and went straight home, only to jump out of his window to his death. The only conclusion that could be drawn was that he was over-traumatised by his traumatised experience at the hand of the police. An innocent life has been tragically lost at such a young age.

The million dollar question is who is to be blamed for this tragedy? The public could not be blamed if they point their finger at the police. They cannot understand how the police, with all their expertise, could deal with a minor as if he was a hardened criminal. The police will find it hard to defend themselves and whatever statement issued by them would not be able to calm the public.

So what is the best course for them to regain public confidence? It is natural to be wise after the event and the police will be found wanting if they could not be doing this. To begin with, it is obvious that their procedure in dealing with teenagers is defective and it is incumbent upon them to revise thoroughly their current procedure to do away with the unpalatable aspects such as the massive use of police manpower and the interrogation of minors without their parents or guardian being present. There should be the application of more common sense in implementing the procedure. They should always bear in mind that minors are a vulnerable class and should be treated compassionately and decently.

If we can henceforth see significant improvement in the police procedure in dealing with minors, the tragic death of Benjamin Lim will not be in vain. But then it is very sad that his parents will have to live with the pain of his premature death for the rest of their lives.

Republished from Singapore Recalcitrant, a blog of Mr Yoong Siew Wah, a former director of the Internal Security Department in the 1970s.

http://singaporerecalcitrant.blogspot.sg/2016/02/the-police-could-show-more-compassion.html

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 02:43 PM

“Militia-like mentality renders any individual helpless, fearful, and forsaken in the eyes of the law”

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/militia-like-mentality-renders-any-individual-helpless-fearful-and-forsaken-in-the-eyes-of-the-law/

By onlinecitizen on February 3, 2016 Letters

Below is a letter to The Online Citizen. The writer has requested to be anonymous.

By an anonymous parent

The recent suicide of a 14-year-old child after his interrogation in the hands of the police highlights a disconcerting sense of loss which I believe many others feel as they, like myself, try to make sense of the events that led to his premature death.

It is equally disconcerting that not a single voice from the ruling party, nor members from the opposition camp, has come forth to issue their thoughts on this matter, except for a number of apathetic reports in the papers that aims more to intellectualize the event as it pertains to the two main institutions of the country involved, rather than pin point certain fundamental flaws in lawful procedures. Has it ever crossed anyone’s minds that this might happen to our own children?

God forbid. Most would simply brush this harrowing thought aside and wish that their charges would be more sensible than to end their own lives. So it was the case when the mother of the victim, the victim, and his sister were taking the train home, with nary a faint suspicion that this would be their last sojourn together as a family.

A young life is taken at such short notice. Although not one to subscribe to the supernatural things that I do not immediately understand, the admission of unclosed eyes of the deceased is symptomatic of justice that needs to be redressed as much as it is unthinkable grief. A former leader of the country once quipped that the citizenry is “animal-like” and that Confucian ideals serve the purpose of negating such “animinalistic” tendencies. I would like to ask, Who or what is the animal here! A boy has died. Such a perversion of Confucian ideals is plain for all to see!

Under a police state, law enforcers are indoctrinated with certain facist ideologies that have persisted to this day, and imbued with an irreproachable power to disarm, disorient, and disavow the rights of, the human being.

The subjugation of the individual takes precedence over any notions of basic human rights, as though some form of sacrosanct moral law has been transgressed. This militia-like mentality renders any individual helpless, fearful, and forsaken in the eyes of the law.

Therefore, law enforcers in such states are often perceived as being apart from, rather than a part of, the common man. It is nothing short of a travesty that the promulgation of such beliefs have been so debased as to transpire in light of events surrounding children around the world, where the line between a child and adult is blurred, for when the child is no longer deemed as an individual, but a mere object that has run afoul of a perceived moral law, he or she is devoid of any feelings, rationality, and right to disputation.

For some, trauma is the only result under such circumstances, and if the logical state of mind is so shaken to the core, ending one’s life, unfortunately, becomes the sole recourse for others.

As a mother buries her child, something does not feel right, something’s got to give.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 02:47 PM

AWARE statement on the rights of minors in criminal investigations

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/aware-statement-on-the-rights-of-minors-in-criminal-investigations/

By onlinecitizen on February 3, 2016 Current Affairs

Statement by Association of Women for Action and Research (AWARE)

We are deeply saddened by the death of Benjamin Lim. We offer our best wishes and condolences to his family and friends at this difficult time. While we cannot ultimately know why this young boy ended his life, the case raises troubling questions about the treatment of minors who come into contact with the criminal justice system.

As a group that works with people who have experienced sexual assault, AWARE is concerned about the rights and welfare of any children who may be involved in sexual assault investigations, whether as complainants, suspects or witnesses.

As a party to the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), Singapore has an obligation in international law to make the best interests of the child a primary consideration in all state dealings with any child. This includes cases where a child is alleged or accused to have committed a criminal offence – a stressful and difficult experience even for the most confident adult.

AWARE welcomes the announcement by SPF that it will review the procedure for police interviews of young people, and urges SPF to draw from international best practice in this area. The Victoria Police in Australia, for instance, can only interview under-18s if a parent, guardian or other support person is present. Moreover, the SPF should be responsible for ensuring that emotional and psychological support is available to all minors (and their carers) who come into contact with the criminal justice system.

Only recently, the Law Society called for accused persons in general to have early access to counsel. This need applies with even more urgency to vulnerable individuals such as minors. Finally, we believe it is extremely important that the police take complaints of sexual assault seriously. But any investigation must take place with due regard for the rights of suspects. Victims of sexual assault want to see fairness and accountability in the criminal process. In many cases, the perpetrators is someone previously known to them.

Victims of sexual assault want to see fairness and accountability in the criminal process. In many cases, the perpetrators is someone previously known to them. If there is a general perception that criminal investigations may be unduly harsh or traumatic, especially for minors, this may deter victims from reporting. It is in everyone’s interest that criminal investigations respect the rights of suspects

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Background of the case – The secondary three student was taken to the police station for investigation by five plainclothes police officers from his school on Tuesday morning and was interviewed for over 3 hours. Benjamin had been alleged to have molested an 11-year-old girl on Monday afternoon which he denies. Shortly after returning home with his mother and sister from the police station, he locked himself in his room and jumped out the window. (read more)

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 02:49 PM

Experience with the police, after being locked up at the station twice

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/experience-with-the-police-after-being-locked-up-at-the-station-twice/

By onlinecitizen on February 3, 2016 Letters

By Alex Ong

An open missive on the recent Yishun teen suicide case:

When I first heard about the case and the circumstances surrounding it, I was angry but not even surprised at all by what has happened.

I have been locked up twice at Ang Mo Kio police station, and what I will tell you next, is truthfully based on what I experienced there.

The police officers responsible for locking up people? Mostly sadists.

They also hire goons from Aetos to do their dirty work for them, and their behaviour is even worse.

They do not care for whether you are a minor, old, weak, strong, have known mental issues, or anything else. They can treat you as a lower lifeform, and they will do it.

“NO SYMPATHY, NO EMPATHY”

These are the exact words right out of the mouth of one of the sadists… I mean officers in there. Female. Indian.

Those words, and her face, I will forever remember it for the rest of eternity.

Feeling suicidal? They will tie you up, put you in a padded cell, and ignore you completely.

Have dietary restrictions? Fuck you, eat the shit we give you. Or starve. Your choice.

Don’t want to go in there? “Don’t commit suicide lah!”. Direct quote from one of the hired Aetos goons. Again words I will never forget.

They don’t care about your emotions. They don’t care about your basic psychological needs. They don’t give a fuck about any of it at all.

Now imagine a 14-year-old innocent teen, wrongfully accused, to be suddenly plucked out of school and subjected to such abuse.

I don’t give a fuck that they did it “low-key”. Obviously, the abuse doesn’t start until it’s behind closed doors and insurmountable walls, which is where they can do their dirty work away from the public’s eyes.

Why do you think I got panic attacks after my second lockup? Why do you think I need professional psychological help from the Institute of Mental Health urgently afterward on both times?

The process, the psychological torment they force you through, it leaves deep, irreparable damage on your psyche.

You don’t come to me saying that the teen was already “weak” when he committed suicide. This is a young boy who had reasons to live. He has a loving family. He was looking forward to participating in a school activity the next day.

You don’t go from someone looking forward to life to being dead by suicide overnight unless something destroyed you psychologically. And given what I experienced, I’m not the least bit surprised that things happened the way it did.

If you never experienced what I did, in my shoes, in reality, you will never understand how damaging it is or comprehend how someone could kill himself over it, and seek other excuses for your reasoning.

To the Singapore police and the responsible ministers, especially to those who allow this to happen while sitting in your ivory towers: your practices have snuffed out a young life full of promise, full of potential. You have blood on your hands that you can never ever even begin to hope that you can clean off. Your blood tainted hands shall be up for the entire world to see, until the end of days.

And don’t think you can try to shake me out of my account. I shall stand by what I said, right here, with every fibre of my soul. No amount of torment, torture, intimidation, even death threats to me or my family, shall ever make me change. I will swear by it, retell all of it straight into your face, hand over my heart or on a religious book of your choice, under an oath in a courtroom, and in any way you want to make me swear by it. You can never run from the truth, and you can never try to change it.

This post was first published on Alex Ong’s Facebook page as a personal experience with the police

countryman

03-02-2016, 04:49 PM

77guy

03-02-2016, 05:48 PM

Copperfield

03-02-2016, 06:12 PM

You are sick in the mind and out of point like countryman. You did not read what the dead boy's family said before commenting.

The dead boy's family said he did not do it and he was coerced to plead guilty by police.

You want to play Judge and pronounce the dead boy guilty when even the authorities did not say so?

You deserve to stay in a place where there is no Judicial System and no trials. A place whereby authorities are always right and if they say you are guilty, you must be guilty. Your paradises include North Korea, ISIS and China.

When you get summon by police, stick to your own words and be quiet if the police say you are guilty.

Wah Seh. Brother. You are right. I really never see where the parents claimed that he was coerced. According to TOC,

While waiting for the train at the MRT station, Mdm Teng asked Benjamin if he had indeed molested the girl. Benjamin told her he had not.

She then asked him, “Why then did you confess?”

According to Mdm Teng, this was what Benjamin said: “You say I am guilty, I’m guilty then.”

Mdm Teng said she told her son that he should not have admitted to the crime if he did not do it.

Got mention police force him? Mentioned where sia? I want to read. Or you assumed that police is guilty? You the judge now?

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:22 PM

Wah Seh. Brother. You are right. I really never see where the parents claimed that he was coerced. According to TOC,

While waiting for the train at the MRT station, Mdm Teng asked Benjamin if he had indeed molested the girl. Benjamin told her he had not.

She then asked him, “Why then did you confess?”

According to Mdm Teng, this was what Benjamin said: “You say I am guilty, I’m guilty then.”

Mdm Teng said she told her son that he should not have admitted to the crime if he did not do it.

Got mention police force him? Mentioned where sia? I want to read. Or you assumed that police is guilty? You the judge now?

You answered your own question.

It was not the mother that made dead boy confessed he is guilty, it was SPF that made dead boy confessed during interrogation.

How SPF made dead boy confessed during interrogation, many netizens have shared their own past experiences with SPF. This is what the article is all about. It is not about dead boy guilty or not. Only the Judge can decide that.

It was also dead boy that told mother he did not do it which was why mother told dead boy not to confess if he did not do it.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:23 PM

Tho i dun like the men in blue...can i ask honestly how many think the boy is realli innocent, mean din molest the girl. Do alot of u guys realli think the police nothing better to do n try accuse the boy for something he did not commit?

Lets be fair...if u pity a young(14yo) life lost here...how can u not pity the 11yo little gal being molested??Wat would be going thru her young 11yo mind after going thru her ordeal of being molested which will long affect her life for a long long time.

We all in sbf becos we are hump sup...i for one admit this fact, but to go molest a 11yo is something totally different and off the limit.

Maybe we have the internet to blame with easy access to porn compare to my time when normally getting porn is thru video tapes we found in our parents cupboard... but i will choose to give my sympathy to the 11yo gal than to the 14yo boy in this case....

We all make mistake when young...joined teen gang b4 myself...involve in fights...but to molest a 11yo is not among my list of forgivable wrong things.

Imagine 14yo commits molest(and if get away too lightly)...wat else next when turn 18yo or 20s...rape??

You are sick in the mind and out of point like countryman. You did not read what the dead boy's family said before commenting.

The dead boy's family said he did not do it and he was coerced to plead guilty by police.

You want to play Judge and pronounce the dead boy guilty when even the authorities did not say so?

The dead boy was not charge by SPF after 3 hours of interrogation.

You want to play Fortune Teller and can predict the dead boy's future? You work at which temple?

You deserve to stay in a place where there is no Judicial System and no trials. A place whereby authorities are always right and if they say you are guilty, you must be guilty. Your paradises include North Korea, ISIS and China.

When you get summon by police, stick to your own words and be quiet if the police say you are guilty.

countryman

03-02-2016, 06:26 PM

This "kuasimi" is a fool, he thinks he is so smart ! What the dead's boy family said u must believe ah? What makes u think the family is saying the truth? Of cos now they are trying to push the blame to the police..
This "kuasimi" is talking as though he was there to witness everything! LOL
Actually he's just stirring shit here !

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:27 PM

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:33 PM

This "kuasimi" is a fool, he thinks he is so smart ! He is acting as though he was there to witness everything! LOL
Actually he's just stirring shit here !

I think the smart ass is you.

You played God, played Judge, played Fortune Teller and all without evidence.

You are constantly out of point.

This thread is about the process flaws from school to interrogation.

You kept harping that the dead boy was guilty and thus deserve the rough treatment from SPF just to defend SPF and PAP.

Whether dead boy guilty or not, only the legal process and Judge can say so.

Even if dead boy is guilty, the process flaws from school to police interrogation remains.

countryman

03-02-2016, 06:37 PM

Same goes to u.. U are just uttering nonsense n playing mr know all! Please don't stir shit here lah....
LOL..... :D

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:38 PM

“I wanna be friends with you in my next life”, grieves friend of 14-year-old who committed suicide after police interrogation

By The Independent - February 1, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/i-wanna-be-friends-with-you-in-my-next-life-grieves-friend-of-14-year-old-who-committed-suicide-after-police-interrogation/

http://theindependent.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/TOC.jpg

Socio-political website, The Online Citizen, yesterday published an article which detailed how a 14-year-old boy jumped to his death, off a ledge outside his 14th-floor flat in Yishun, after unaccompanied police interrogation in a case of outrage of modesty.

A person who claims to be the friend of the boy who died, has now expressed grief in the most heartbreaking way in a comment to the article.

Kenneth Tan said, “Ben you were my most loyal friend. We’ve met since day 1 of sec 1 we often quarrel but those were my precious moments. If possible i wanna be friends with you on my next life.

“You were the only one that always eat chicken rice with me for the past 3 years. Now i have no one to eat with,pls come back.”

http://theindependent.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/TOC2.jpg

Other commenters on his grieving post have offered comfort to the friend of the deceased.

http://theindependent.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/TOC3.jpg

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:42 PM

Same goes to u.. U are just uttering nonsense n playing mr know all!
LOL..... :D

You are wrong, I did not know anything.

There are some clear cut problems in this case which was how the school and SPF mishandled the dead boy. This part everybody knows base on public articles on Internet and MSM. The SPF even promise to review its procedures because of this case.

Only you seem to know everything. You know the dead boy was guilty of molesting the girl but cannot produce evidence. You also know the school and SPF did nothing wrong. You know everything was the dead boy's fault. So you are the smartest ass.

countryman

03-02-2016, 06:46 PM

Oh whatever blah blah blah blah....
That's enough of stirring shit here lah...
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL.....

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:47 PM

GHUI WRITES: Did police presume the 14-year-old was guilty at the onset of investigations?

By The Independent - February 2, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/ghui-writes-did-police-presume-the-14-year-old-was-guilty-at-the-onset-of-investigations/

By: Ghui

Being a teenager is a tricky period even in the best of times. Facing adolescence in the glare of social media coupled with modern day school pressures must make it an even more confusing time. My heart really goes out to the family of teenager Benjamin Lee (http://theindependent.sg/i-wanna-be-friends-with-you-in-my-next-life-grieves-friend-of-14-year-old-who-committed-suicide-after-police-interrogation/) whose suicide after a police interrogation has now made headlines in Singapore.

A few issues of concern have been raised since this episode and for this death not to have been in vain, lessons have to be learnt in how we handle interrogations of minors.

From the few police statements that have been made, it would appear that the police have already presumed Lee’s guilt. Whatever has happened to “innocent until proven guilty”? While Singapore prides itself on its efficiency, has that seeped into our law enforcement system to our detriment? Is everything so results oriented that having a cased solved becomes more of an overriding concern than the welfare of a minor?

More disturbing is the revelation that guardians or parents are not permitted to be present with minors when they are being interrogated. (http://theindependent.sg/death-of-14-year-old-killed-himself-after-police-interrogation-raises-many-issues-says-filmmaker/)

Apparently the police are concerned that if parents or guardians are present, they would not get the truth. For this to be true, the minor in question would have to be a very confident and savvy kid who is well acquainted with the legal system which I suspect is very rare.

Why then is a practice developed to safeguard something that is reasonably rare at the expense of the welfare of a minor? Could this be a hangover from the 60s and 70s when kids grew up fast and gangsterism was rife? Are these concerns still relevant today?

I would imagine that having the reassuring presence of a parent or guardian present would give the minor in question the confidence to tell the truth!

Grown men have been known to confess to crimes they didn’t commit under a variety of circumstances. They might be manipulated, under duress or have no way to prove their innocence and just cave under the pressure of the barrage of accusations.

Remember, the interrogation room is not going to be a friendly atmosphere. It will likely be intimidating and unfamiliar. If adults fall prey to false confessions, much less an adolescent who is plucked out of the security of school and plunged into the scary environment of a police station all within a matter of hours without any time to even mentally prepare himself!

His statement “I did not do it, but since everyone thinks that I did it, then I did it” is particularly telling of his state of mind after the interrogation. As a teenager, he must have feared gossip, social media backlash and public ostracisation. He must have been led to believe that the evidence against him was so overwhelming that he had no way out.

This was a conclusion that he came to without the support of his parents or the advice of a legal adviser and may have not even been true! It may just have been an interrogation tactic!

Many may wonder why he would kill himself if he really were innocent. But that would be ignoring the emotional response that can occur as a result of a sudden and unexpected interrogation.

Remember, this isn’t a hardened criminal. This is a school boy who has most likely never seen the inside of an interrogation room outside of television!

Besides, even if he was guilty, he should still be protected as a minor and have his parents present! Guilty people have rights too, much less minors.

In our course to be efficient and get things done, have we forgotten that it is individuals that we are dealing with and not statistics and data? It isn’t just about closing the case. It is about solving it to ensure that justice is done and that minors are protected.

I think it is high time the police reviewed and updated their procedures when dealing with minors.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:51 PM

Oh whatever blah blah blah blah....
That's enough of stirring shit here lah...
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL.....

Do not start to divert attention, be on high horse and start accusing people of stirring shit just to defend your own agenda. Nobody is stirring shit here including the thousands of netizens making comments on Internet. This case is already a fact.

If everytime authorities are questionable and best way to cover up and sweep under carpet is to accuse people of stirring shit, then sooner or later Singapore will become worse than ISIS, China and North Korea.

Next time you get in trouble with authorities, you better stick to your words and keep quiet.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:53 PM

Death of 14-year-old who killed himself after police interrogation raises many issues says filmmaker

By The Independent - January 31, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/death-of-14-year-old-killed-himself-after-police-interrogation-raises-many-issues-says-filmmaker/

Filmmaker Martyn See has taken the Singapore Police Force to task for the unnatural death of a 14-year-old boy who allegedly committed suicide after the police interrogated him for a case of outrage of modesty.

Referring to a report on the suicide which said:

“The Secondary 3 boy was being investigated for molest before he fell from his 14th-storey window. He had been taken into police custody and released on bail on the same day of his death.

His mother said he had admitted to the crime during the police interview.
But when she later probed him, she said he told her: “I did not do it, but since everyone thinks that I did it, then I did it.”

The filmmaker commented:

“A 14-year-old has killed himself because he was investigated by the police.

Getting a call from the police in Singapore can wet the pants of many adults, let alone a 14-year-old boy. This is symptomatic of living in a state where police powers trump the legal rights of individuals.”

Mr See expressed that the death of the teenager raises many issues because teenagers may not know their legal rights.

Commenting on her post of the same teenager’s death, prominent blogger Kirsten Han said, “I knew that investigators are only required to allow access to legal counsel within an unspecified “reasonable time” but had no idea that parents/guardians aren’t even allowed in the room when a minor is questioned. This is stunningly bad practice – how can we be sure that a statement taken from an intimidated, frightened kid wasn’t coerced?”

“Lionel de Souza’s (former policeman) answer is also unacceptable. It almost reads as if he is coming from a position where the minor is guilty of something and having a parent would stop the police from getting it out of him. But wouldn’t allowing legal counsel be present actually help make sure everything is above board and due process be followed?”, Ms Han added.

Medical doctor and Singapore Democratic Party’s candidate in the last general election, Paul Tambyah, writing on Ms Han’s post said that this case can be brought up to the United Nations since we are signatories to the ‘Convention on the Rights of the Child‘.

Article 40 of the Convention requires:

“States Parties recognize the right of every child alleged as, accused of, or recognized as having infringed the penal law to be treated in a manner consistent with the promotion of the child’s sense of dignity and worth, which reinforces the child’s respect for the human rights and fundamental freedoms of others and which takes into account the child’s age and the desirability of promoting the child’s reintegration and the child’s assuming a constructive role in society.

“To be informed promptly and directly of the charges against him or her, and, if appropriate, through his or her parents or legal guardians, and to have legal or other appropriate assistance in the preparation and presentation of his or her defence”.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:55 PM

Case of the 14-year-old boy who committed suicide after police interrogation – Coroner’s Inquiry to be held says Police

By The Independent - February 1, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/case-of-the-14-year-old-boy-who-committed-suicide-after-police-interrogation-coroners-inquiry-to-be-held-says-police/

The Singapore Police Force (SPF) delivered a statement regarding the death of a 14-year-old boy who it had interrogated for an outrage of modesty case.

In the statement, the Police said it would be reviewing its procedures if it should allow an appropriate adult to be present when a young person is interviewed.

SPF STATEMENT IN FULL:

Police Statement on Death of 14-Year-Old Male Student Under Investigation for Outrage of Modesty

In this case, a Police report was lodged about a molestation. Based on CCTV evidence, Police officers went to conduct enquiries at a school. To keep investigations discreet, the officers went in plainclothes and in unmarked cars. After discussions with the school officials, and the viewing of the CCTV records, Benjamin was identified as the boy in the CCTV records. He was brought to the Principal’s office by a school official and was spoken with in the presence of a Police officer. Before he was brought back to Ang Mo Kio Division, he contacted his mother to inform her of the Police’s investigations. The Police officer also spoke to the mother.

While at Ang Mo Kio Division, he was interviewed by one Investigation Officer at his workstation in an open plan office with other workstations. He was fully cooperative during the interview. He was then released on bail and went back with his mother.

The Police have been asked whether it should review the procedure to allow an appropriate adult to be present when a young person is interviewed. The Police will review and address this issue.

Police investigations have not been completed. A Coroner’s Inquiry will be held upon the conclusion of investigations, where all the relevant facts will be presented to the State Coroner. At the inquiry, the family will also be able to raise all questions that they may have.

Benjamin’s passing was tragic. The Police have expressed their deepest condolences to the family. They have met the family to address their questions on the case and provide clarifications on the actions of the Police officers during their interaction with Benjamin.

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 06:57 PM

“We will not stand in the way of law,” MOE responds

By The Independent - February 2, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/MSM_report-702x320.jpg

http://theindependent.sg/we-will-not-stand-in-the-way-of-law-moe-responds/

The Ministry of Education (MOE) responding to media queries about the case of the 14 year-old boy who committed suicide after police investigations said today that schools in Singapore are obligated to cooperate with the police.

Schools will try to ensure the well-being of their students in assisting the police with their investigations, but will “not stand in the way of law”, said MOE. There is also a a set of guidelines “which corresponds to the police’s guidelines on working with minors” the Ministry’s spokesperson said.

“This includes ascertaining the identities of the police officers who approach our schools,” MOE said. It explained that the school would speak to its student before the police speaks with him or her.

“The student’s parent or appointed guardian is also contacted before the student leaves with the police to assist in investigations. We will also ensure that our student is not hungry and has something to eat before leaving with the police,” MOE said.

Underpinning these guidelines is MOE’s belief that regardless of the trouble students may be in with the law, schools have a duty of care to its students, said the spokesperson.

“While the student is assisting in police investigations, the school will continue to keep in contact with the student and the parent/guardian to render the necessary support,” MOE said, adding that will keep the student’s identity and the nature of the case strictly confidential to protect the student’s privacy and dignity.

Copperfield

03-02-2016, 08:09 PM

You answered your own question.

It was not the mother that made dead boy confessed he is guilty, it was SPF that made dead boy confessed during interrogation.

How SPF made dead boy confessed during interrogation, many netizens have shared their own past experiences with SPF. This is what the article is all about. It is not about dead boy guilty or not. Only the Judge can decide that.

It was also dead boy that told mother he did not do it which was why mother told dead boy not to confess if he did not do it.

He said you to the mum rite? why assume he talking about the Police? Past reference means nothing to this case. If someone was convicted of theft in the past, no need to investigate meh? blame him can already?

My teacher last time accused me of stealing. I did not. He no believe me. He was wrong, does that mean he is wrong all the time? The police can be wrong in the past but that has nothing to do with this case. Will i kpkb about my teacher? i would, does that mean all teachers are evil? no reference lei. Ai yah, You read the article without an open mind.

Copperfield

03-02-2016, 08:23 PM

By: Ghui

Being a teenager is a tricky period even in the best of times. Facing adolescence in the glare of social media coupled with modern day school pressures must make it an even more confusing time. My heart really goes out to the family of teenager Benjamin Lee (http://theindependent.sg/i-wanna-be-friends-with-you-in-my-next-life-grieves-friend-of-14-year-old-who-committed-suicide-after-police-interrogation/) whose suicide after a police interrogation has now made headlines in Singapore.

A few issues of concern have been raised since this episode and for this death not to have been in vain, lessons have to be learnt in how we handle interrogations of minors.

From the few police statements that have been made, it would appear that the police have already presumed Lee’s guilt. Whatever has happened to “innocent until proven guilty”? While Singapore prides itself on its efficiency, has that seeped into our law enforcement system to our detriment? Is everything so results oriented that having a cased solved becomes more of an overriding concern than the welfare of a minor?

More disturbing is the revelation that guardians or parents are not permitted to be present with minors when they are being interrogated. (http://theindependent.sg/death-of-14-year-old-killed-himself-after-police-interrogation-raises-many-issues-says-filmmaker/)

Apparently the police are concerned that if parents or guardians are present, they would not get the truth. For this to be true, the minor in question would have to be a very confident and savvy kid who is well acquainted with the legal system which I suspect is very rare.

Why then is a practice developed to safeguard something that is reasonably rare at the expense of the welfare of a minor? Could this be a hangover from the 60s and 70s when kids grew up fast and gangsterism was rife? Are these concerns still relevant today?

I would imagine that having the reassuring presence of a parent or guardian present would give the minor in question the confidence to tell the truth!

Something out of point, I don't know about the confidence part. Lets say the police ask me if I got masturbate, I don't think i got more confidence when my parents are around to tell the truth. Never met anyone with such balls yet. :p

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 09:02 PM

He said you to the mum rite? why assume he talking about the Police? Past reference means nothing to this case. If someone was convicted of theft in the past, no need to investigate meh? blame him can already?

My teacher last time accused me of stealing. I did not. He no believe me. He was wrong, does that mean he is wrong all the time? The police can be wrong in the past but that has nothing to do with this case. Will i kpkb about my teacher? i would, does that mean all teachers are evil? no reference lei. Ai yah, You read the article without an open mind.

I dont understand your entire passage above. It is totally irrelevant to the case.

First you accuse the dead boy was guilty of molest and said nothing wrong with SPF but cannot produce evidence dead boy was guilty.

I asked you to read what dead boy family had to say before commenting. You start twisting until give some irrelevant analogy.

The story is simple. Dead boy confessed to molest after 3 hours interrogation by SPF. Dead boy family dispute entire interrogation process and confession and claim dead boy told mum he did not do it. His confession was false. In this case, the question to ask was how SPF get the confession.

If the mum was the one that say he was guilty of molest, why did dead boy family come out to dispute SPF's confession?

Why would the mum even accuse the dead boy of molest when the mum later tell him not to rashly confess if he did not do it?

You failed comprehension or something?

It is SPF's words versus the dead boy family's words. It will never be resolved.

Even you want to defend PAP and SPF, please talk sense.

FuLuSh0u

03-02-2016, 09:07 PM

kuasimi

03-02-2016, 09:09 PM

Something out of point, I don't know about the confidence part. Lets say the police ask me if I got masturbate, I don't think i got more confidence when my parents are around to tell the truth. Never met anyone with such balls yet. :p

Like you said, it is out of point and irrelevant to actual topic.

Copperfield

03-02-2016, 09:32 PM

I dont understand your entire passage above. It is totally irrelevant to the case.

First you accuse the dead boy was guilty of molest and said nothing wrong with SPF but cannot produce evidence dead boy was guilty.

I asked you to read what dead boy family had to say before commenting. You start twisting until give some irrelevant analogy.

The story is simple. Dead boy confessed to molest after 3 hours interrogation by SPF. Dead boy family dispute entire interrogation process and confession and claim dead boy told mum he did not do it. His confession was false. In this case, the question to ask was how SPF get the confession.

If the mum was the one that say he was guilty of molest, why did dead boy family come out to dispute SPF's confession?

Why would the mum even accuse the dead boy of molest when the mum later tell him not to rashly confess if he did not do it?

You failed comprehension or something?

It is SPF's words versus the dead boy family's words. It will never be resolved.

Even you want to defend PAP and SPF, please talk sense.

First you accuse the dead boy was guilty of molest and said nothing wrong with SPF but cannot produce evidence dead boy was guilty. - I never say he was guilty. But he is the suspect rite? Police can speak to suspect rite?

I asked you to read what dead boy family had to say before commenting. You start twisting until give some irrelevant analogy. - I did read. Still never see the part that the Police had force the boy to admit. The mother only say why you admit if you never do, which meant that he did admit to the deed. Did the son say he was abuse into admitting? he was with the mother for over an hour but never mentioned that?

The story is simple. Dead boy confessed to molest after 3 hours interrogation by SPF. Dead boy family dispute entire interrogation process and confession and claim dead boy told mum he did not do it. His confession was false. In this case, the question to ask was how SPF get the confession.

If the mum was the one that say he was guilty of molest, why did dead boy family come out to dispute SPF's confession?

-- I also never see the part where they dispute the confession. I only see the part that they dispute why the Police never wait for NOK or no legal guardian was with the boy during the statement, which the police's released statement is saying that they will reviewed. I don't see anything in that statement that mentioned that they did anything wrong.

please read :“My son died a very unjustified death,” exclaimed Mr Lim. “Why couldn’t they have waited until school was over? Why couldn’t they have waited till his parents were around?”

Spare a thought for the victim. I dont know if she is really molested or not. But what if she is?

I'm not defending anyone. People can see facts. I'm just stating what i read but you are aggressively trying to twist your points. Good luck to you. You live in such a negative world. I wish you best of luck.

Summerhillt

03-02-2016, 11:14 PM

Apparently, let me tell you how fucked up this situation is. Firstly what are we about to talk about? Pinpoint who? What? Why?

Firstly let me share some of my personal real life experience. I grew up in a normal family. Not rich no car, father drives a taxi. Everything was really hard. My studies were good. Above average. But I chose to mix with the pai kias in my secondary school. Joined their di Tao since I was sec 2 cause I was a real fighter. I could take down a sec 3 guy. You know, when you wear short pants in school, you win a fight against a long pants guy you are really upzz. My grades did not slip, still can get edusave bursary year after year. But things fucked up, when we eventually got into a gang fight and deadly weapons were used.

Ccb, last time ssb really fucking efficient. Our gang photo with everybody at our own zai dui and " pak logo " from friendster was saved and printed out big big like drawing block A3 Size and each individual face circled out.

When I was schooling, every classroom got this white box intercom box. Everytime light up, its either whole school together announce or office to classroom. Ccb I was told go report to general office. I see policeman lah, ssb lah, all the fuckers act in front of the school staff. Cheebye when I go in the van, the fucking pai kia bengs jitao kan me ancestors 18 generation.

Can you imagine? I so young only at that point of time but kena fuck hokkien language by so many " ah beng " police officer. Gold hair all. Pui cao nua at them. On the way back go cantoment keep fucking me non stop say I going jialat and they convinently ask me my neighbouring vicinity ah long spraypaint is it all I do one as well? I fuck that staff Sgt cheebye. Step fierce. Anything also want to link to me.

Kena lock up, can see other members inside already as well. I was not kept separately, but instead lock up with people who are of adult age looks more scary than your average uncle. Still rmbr got one is drug addict locked up together. He sniff glue for the 10x time with his gf. His gf locked beside us.

So can you imagine? A 14 year old who prolly got no "other side" experience of life ? Not street smart? Just suddenly got hauled up by pai kia lookalike officers who haul expletives at you and say you 死路一条 how would u feel? But what a fucking joke. Ask a 13 year old to sign the statement. Like this might as well ask 13 years old to sign credit card and wait parents to pay.

Cut short my story, io when recording statement keep fucking me. Say you admit lah cheebye, your other member all say you got whack liao. You admit we charge lesser.

But I know, my members will not shoot. We say before, we will not paotoh no matter what. Last time CCTV not as rampant as before. But still, we kena fuck again by the ssb. They say they will register our nric as member of secrect society duno what fuck. Say we at cantoment 17th floor can be regular.

Cause not enough evidence, released. Lucky one member the parents open provision shop. Very rich, hire lawyer fight the case and go until meet the MP. When MP letter come all become scaredy cats pui cao nua.

End of the day. Warning letter for me cause I too young. Was I afraid? Yes I was. But because I grew up in a rugged environment hence I could handle it.

If a normal young kid had to go through what I had gone through. Surely he would confessed and be scared. Police won't help you. They just want to charge you and close case and improve kpi.

Can't believe till now, they still using this tactic.

But luckily for me, I was mentally strong and lol decided to stay away from all these and got on the better side of life. But yea, fuck the police.

sadfa

03-02-2016, 11:33 PM

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 12:01 AM

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

Summerhillt

04-02-2016, 12:05 AM

Respect to you even though you're a si ginna for telling the truth about these cb police. Home team my lj.
Only these stupid sporeans think a bunch of cowards hiding behind guns damn eh sai.

All these are failed gangsters.
And if they meet a si ginna one on one in thailand n they got no gun, its time they get fucked n beaten up like a bitch.

No more si ginnah lah, now just an old uncle Liao.. Thinking how to earn more money lah..

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 12:12 AM

First you accuse the dead boy was guilty of molest and said nothing wrong with SPF but cannot produce evidence dead boy was guilty. - I never say he was guilty. But he is the suspect rite? Police can speak to suspect rite?

I asked you to read what dead boy family had to say before commenting. You start twisting until give some irrelevant analogy. - I did read. Still never see the part that the Police had force the boy to admit. The mother only say why you admit if you never do, which meant that he did admit to the deed. Did the son say he was abuse into admitting? he was with the mother for over an hour but never mentioned that?

The story is simple. Dead boy confessed to molest after 3 hours interrogation by SPF. Dead boy family dispute entire interrogation process and confession and claim dead boy told mum he did not do it. His confession was false. In this case, the question to ask was how SPF get the confession.

If the mum was the one that say he was guilty of molest, why did dead boy family come out to dispute SPF's confession?

-- I also never see the part where they dispute the confession. I only see the part that they dispute why the Police never wait for NOK or no legal guardian was with the boy during the statement, which the police's released statement is saying that they will reviewed. I don't see anything in that statement that mentioned that they did anything wrong.

please read :“My son died a very unjustified death,” exclaimed Mr Lim. “Why couldn’t they have waited until school was over? Why couldn’t they have waited till his parents were around?”

Spare a thought for the victim. I dont know if she is really molested or not. But what if she is?

I'm not defending anyone. People can see facts. I'm just stating what i read but you are aggressively trying to twist your points. Good luck to you. You live in such a negative world. I wish you best of luck.

You are going round and round just to defend the indefensible. You are twisting facts.

Nobody is saying the dead boy is not a suspect and SPF cannot interrogate the dead boy but there are many suspects but only one real culprit.

Suspect only but no charge is a very normal scenario. You sound dead sure the dead boy did it. You know the meaning of suspect only?

Again, it goes back to the point HOW the SPF interrogate the dead boy and get the confession which is the entire point of this thread.

You kept diverting and twisting your own meaning.

It is obvious the dead boy family dispute the entire process from school to interrogation.

If the dead boy family dont dispute the confession, why even mention son died with eyes open, why dispute police taking and interrogating son without parents presence, why say the son admit he did not do it, say the son confessed out of fustration rather than guilt? Why even find TOC to write such a long article different from MSM?

Everybody is innocent until judge say you are guilty. Why ask the hypothetical question if girl was really molested? It means not sure right?

Even if girl was really molested, the process flaws from school until interrogation remains else why SPF say conduct review?

Now you want to accuse people who dispute the authorities as negative people to win your argument? Irrelevant.

Please go and stay at North Korea, ISIS and China. The citizens there do not dispute with authorities, these countries are very positive and the authorities are always right.

Summerhillt

04-02-2016, 12:36 AM

sadfa

04-02-2016, 01:16 AM

What we hope to see some light shed upon would be what is the standard procedure when apprehending a suspect who is not of a legal age and were they thoroughly followed. Were any unorthodox methods used? Simple as that. Did the boy molest or not is another question.. I just hope that the deceased family can hold on tight together.. It's the lunar new year soon and such a devastating thing chanced upon that family..

Can the IO sleep or not at night? I say he would prolly sleep tight and really sound if he followed SOP and there was no inditimdation on his part.

But if the IO used some sly pui cao nua tactics on that poor child. I wish him a very advanced happy cny.

Please la. You should know.

When your job is to get children to sign documents, when these children never even create their own signatures before, n these children don't know the consequences of signing n then you use the document in court, for the court to sentence the children n ruin their lives, you got any conscience meh??

Io cannot sleep only if he never follow procedure n never seek higher approval cos that means disciplinary action n garbagement will sack him n let him take the fall.

Other than that, if he scream at Benjamin, curse n suan his family for being poor, threaten Benjamin n his family, he will still collect salary, celebrate cny, gamble, fuck chicken, Limp kopi, take leave, go holiday, collect bonus, get promotion.

If these people got guilty conscience, they would've quitted long ago le.

When coroner inquiry n review come, everybody will cover each other n fuck care Benjamin. If ppl sabo the io, he will expose all those dirty advanced interrogation tactics they use.

When sporeans hear, even those hard hearted ah peks will cry. The minister won't die but a few supt sure will kanna.

BTW Benjamin cremated liao.
Bet they never even turn up at wake n pay respects. Fuck these fake hypocrites.

sadfa

04-02-2016, 05:32 AM

Just one case, changes will happened. Police will have tough time in future

No change la. Last time, white horse saga, goh said move on. Case finish.

Now, they wont change procedure becos they want the process to be uniform for everyone. Adults, children, foreigner, mentally challenged.

They'll just have a bs step where the court will decide whether the child telling the truth.

kt88_2

04-02-2016, 07:29 AM

The garment n SPF really 'look' after n love the true citizens of Singapore.

remyken

04-02-2016, 01:21 PM

Knnbccb. Fuck the Singapore police. Only know how to catch children,

For those whom have been interrogated before by them. They will know what kind of pressure that young boy faced.

Even if he did molest, do he deserve to die? Can those fucker police that indirectly killed him, sleep at night?

Fucking wrong system in Singapore.

ComplainKing

04-02-2016, 01:29 PM

The garment n SPF really 'look' after n love the true citizens of Singapore.

What they don't realise is that the loss of one potential support vote and probable many more belonging to the boy's generation. Really sad to see a young live gone .

Summerhillt

04-02-2016, 02:24 PM

Please la. You should know.

When your job is to get children to sign documents, when these children never even create their own signatures before, n these children don't know the consequences of signing n then you use the document in court, for the court to sentence the children n ruin their lives, you got any conscience meh??

Io cannot sleep only if he never follow procedure n never seek higher approval cos that means disciplinary action n garbagement will sack him n let him take the fall.

Other than that, if he scream at Benjamin, curse n suan his family for being poor, threaten Benjamin n his family, he will still collect salary, celebrate cny, gamble, fuck chicken, Limp kopi, take leave, go holiday, collect bonus, get promotion.

If these people got guilty conscience, they would've quitted long ago le.

When coroner inquiry n review come, everybody will cover each other n fuck care Benjamin. If ppl sabo the io, he will expose all those dirty advanced interrogation tactics they use.

When sporeans hear, even those hard hearted ah peks will cry. The minister won't die but a few supt sure will kanna.

BTW Benjamin cremated liao.
Bet they never even turn up at wake n pay respects. Fuck these fake hypocrites.

So god damn fucking true, i guess brother you do have your own brushes with the law itself?

FuLuShou

04-02-2016, 03:08 PM

Judging from online sharing by netizens of past incidences involving SPF, it seems past 50 years, SPF interrogation methods of the citizens did not change much and remain consistent. But nobody committed suicide like this boy thus it remained as coffeeshop chitchat only.

I heard more Police or Cisco officers open fire to commit suicide than 1 incident of boy jumping.

Let us move on.

squiggle

04-02-2016, 03:22 PM

We can't really put all the blame onto the police and the parents. Police will definitely not treat the accused kind and friendly. The police are just following orders, when you have a bad gov/system in place, don't expect the civil servants to be kind and good. 70% also at fault. SG is a police state, like anywhere, where the authority deem you wrong, you will be at wrong/your fate will be in their hands. Even Amos Yee been treated like dog at his age, don't need to say to anyone who is similar to his age/younger than him.

OM is a serious case that could even unable to be bail out. Women charter is a powerful thing/law can be bias sometimes, the girls/women genuine/falsely accuse us for OM/rape, it will cause us lots of trouble. Benjamin committed suicide doesn't mean he is guilty/not guilty, death doesn't really prove or able to resolve anything.

If Benjamin is still alive, being brave and calm. His parents could fight the case off and shame the police force. By complaining to the press and blowing the matter big.

KuanYin

04-02-2016, 03:44 PM

KuanYim

04-02-2016, 05:04 PM

FuLuSh0u

04-02-2016, 05:23 PM

I heard more Police or Cisco officers open fire to commit suicide than 1 incident of boy jumping.

Let us move on (13/20)

k-knight

04-02-2016, 05:42 PM

Actually Sg is a first world country by its outlook only. Yes in terms of economy in its country but to the people living in Sg we are still not being able to fully enjoy the privilege. Theres a lot of things in sg that shld be changed by now but it hasnt been , mainly to let them stay in power.
One example is the Isa act to detent without trial, cmon we are a first world democracy country and this law was made in the 50s to catch those secret society members but the reason it is not abolish up til now is because it is being used to lock up politicians that opposed them.

Another eg is this 14 yr old case. They should already be reviewing on the standards of treating a minor. I hv heard stories of 2 pri sch kids stealing comic books and was caught by the shop owners, 6 to 7 police officers came and handcuff them and brought them back to the station. I didnt believe it until what happen to this 14 ye old minor case, then i believe these might be happening in Sg.. I feel that especially pri sch kids, they shld just take statememnt on the spot and take down their ezlink particulars and send a letter to their parents to bring the child down to the station for some counselling. This is more appropriate then forcing them back to the station, this is a double edge sword, yes it might act as a deter for the kid to drop the idea but it might also have a negative impact and make the child feel depress and hopeless thinking their lives is over.

For this case, a dumbass would also know that the IO interrogating is forcing and pressurig the kid out of it. Only those mentally challenged then will buy the police side of the story like its just a normal interrogation and he is feeling alright throughout the interviews.
Spf r just a bunch of lazy ass that are scare of doing the extra work. If one knows the law will know that actually in the eye of law, many things can be denied and even evidence for eg showing a photo of u holding a gun, you can also defend yourself by saying this is a toygun or it is being photoshopped. The easiest way for the police to proceed with their charges will be by your statement. They pressure til you either say something wrong or in a way admit. Then they will proceed to charge.
In this case for a minor, they should have a real subtle interview and tell him they will go for polygraph to make sure he is not lying. But I guess they are too lazy to go to the extend to apply for polygraph tests, why go through all thr hassle, paperwork, inform the parents or the minor again when u can force out an admission in 3 hrs.

When a person gets a charge, the police will psycho the person like why go for lawyer or no use gettign a lawyer or say judge will think you are unrepentent if u try to defend yourself with lawyers and have heavier sentence. The truth is, if you hire a lwyer and fight the case, there will be more work for the IO to do. Those pap dogs can just come and shoot me, no problem. But those who work with the law or hv brushes agajnst the law will know what Im saying.

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 08:50 PM

We cannot forgive the way my son was treated: Benjamin Lim’s father in open letter

Yahoo Singapore

February 4, 2016

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/open-letter-from-family-on-minors-death-after-055236378.html

The family of 14-year-old Benjamin Lim, who was found dead at the foot of his block on 26 Jan after he was questioned by the police, have sent an open letter to The Online Citizen to clarify events.

Written by Benjamin’s father, the letter published on Thursday (4 Feb) seeks to “provide certain information on the chain of events leading to the tragedy”.

“There have been reports in various publications offering different versions of occurrences leading to the passing of Benjamin,” the letter read.

The letter comes after police said on Monday (1 Feb) that they would be reviewing interview procedures.

Benjamin’s death came later in the afternoon that police questioned him for alleged outrage of modesty of an 11-year-old girl.

“It was initially reported that family members had received timely updates from police and school authorities… This statement was not accurate,” said Benjamin’s father in the letter wherein he ran through a timeline of events.

He noted that his wife was initially informed only when the police came to take Benjamin away to the police station.

He wrote that it broke his heart when he learned that his boy had his last meal in the school, a cold bun.

He also castigated the school for letting his son leave without waiting for family members to arrive.

“The school, in my opinion, should never have handed over my son to five police officers during recess hours without having to wait for the arrival of family members,” he said.

Seeking justice

He said it was now his “duty to seek justice” for his son, and he and his family did not want to speculate on whether the offence took place until the coroner’s hearing.

“That said, as parents we cannot forget and we cannot forgive the way my son was treated, from the school to the time he was in police custody,” he wrote.

He had harsh words for his both his son’s school and the police.

“We as parents we entrusted our children to you. You have a duty to ensure that our children are appropriately taken care of, reasonably protected and have their interest in your priority,” he said addressing school authorities.

“To the police… You are there to look for one secondary 3 student. You are not there to apprehend an adult suspect with full ability to escape or capable in single combat,” Benjamin’s father wrote.

He also thanked Benjamin’s friends and members of the public for their support. You can read the letter in full on The Online Citizen.

jacky43

04-02-2016, 08:51 PM

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 08:54 PM

Open letter from Benjamin’s family to clarify what transpired on 26 January

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/open-letter-from-benjamins-family-to-clarify-what-transpired-on-26-janurary/

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

BY ONLINECITIZEN ON FEBRUARY 4, 2016 LETTERS

The family members of 14-year-old Benjamin Lim have passed an open letter to The Online Citizen to be published, hoping that it can clarify and provide certain information on the chain of events leading to their son’s death on 26 January (Tuesday).

The family also thanks everyone who have came forward to show their support to Benjamin. They have created an email account dedicated to Benjamin, [email protected] and welcome friends and members of public to write to them.

The letter from Benjamin’s family in full

The family of Benjamin Lim wish to express our deepest gratitude and appreciation to all friends, relatives and members of the public for your kind expression of sympathy in our time of great sorrow. There have been reports in various publications offering different versions of occurrences leading to the passing of Benjamin. This letter seeks to clarify and also provide certain information on the chain of events leading to the tragedy on 26 January 2016.

In the morning of 26 January 2016, Benjamin’s mother received a call from his mobile number. One police officer spoke to her and informed that Benjamin was being investigated for a case of “outrage of modesty” involving one 11-year-old Chinese girl outside school in the afternoon of 25 January 2016. The officer informed that Benjamin would be taken to Ang Mo Kio police station for further investigation. Benjamin’s mother asked to speak to her son, of which then the phone was given back to Benjamin. However, they (mother and son) did not managed to speak for long before phone was taken away. According to Benjamin’s mother, the officer informed that police will be contacting the family in the afternoon when Benjamin is allowed to leave the police station.

Benjamin’s mother and elder sister then rushed to the school, arrived at about 11am. At that point, Benjamin had already left the school with police officers. They spoke to the discipline master and school counsellor, and were informed that Benjamin was taken to Ang Mo Kio police station to assist in investigation. When asked for details, the staffs were only able to reveal that Benjamin was identified via a CCTV footage captured at the lift lobby in one of the HDB blocks.

On the same day at about 1pm, Benjamin’s mother received a call from Ang Mo Kio Police Division HQ informing that Benjamin was arrested and that family members may proceed to the police station to bail him out. Mother and daughter then rushed to the police station, and were told to wait at the reception area. After some time, one officer led Benjamin’s mother to the investigation office for recording of statement. It was until about 2.50pm when Benjamin was finally brought out to meet his mother and sister.

Benjamin’s mother noted that he appeared quiet, and his hands were uncomfortably cold after they left the police station. She then asked him about the alleged offence, he denied. When asked why he admitted to the police when he did not do it, he said “they said I am guilty, so I am guilty lor”. Benjamin was then told that he should not have admitted to the crime if he did not do it. Their conversation ended then as the train was approaching.

Benjamin, together with mother and sister, they went home directly. Having sensed that Benjamin was rather quiet and not his usual self, the mother got him to shower while she prepared a meal for him. She then left him alone at the dining hall, and made no further query about the offence he was alleged to have committed. It was until about 4.13pm after Benjamin’s mother received a call from the school counsellor to convey the message that the school has decided that Benjamin will not be attending the Secondary Three School Cohort Camp from 27 to 29 January 2016, and that was when they last spoke. Benjamin was told of the decision by the school’s authorities.

After a while, the mother called for Benjamin but there was no answer. Mother and sister then knocked on the bedroom door and realised that it was locked. That was the first time the door was locked. After they managed to enter into the room, there was no sign of Benjamin. One desktop fan which was supposed to be on the table; was on the floor and the window was open. They then rushed to the void deck, and Benjamin was lying motionless on the ground with his head facing down.

It was initially reported that family members had received timely updates from police and school authorities after Benjamin was taken away by five plainclothes police officers in two unmarked police vehicles. This statement was not accurate.

Benjamin’s mother was informed by police officer for the first time in the morning when Benjamin was already taken to the principle’s office. The police officer merely informed her that Benjamin would be taken to Ang Mo Kio police station for further investigation, and that the police will contact the family in the afternoon when he would be allowed to leave.

When the mother and sister arrived at the school, they were told by the discipline master and school counsellor that Benjamin was identified by CCTV footages and that no other information could be revealed. The next contact with the police was at Ang Mo Kio Police Division HQ, after the mother received a call to inform that Benjamin was arrested and she should bail him out. It should be noted at this point that the mother was taken to the investigator’s office (open plan office) for statement recording rather than being allowed to see her son.

It was not until 2.50pm before mother and sister finally saw Benjamin after he was brought out to the reception area. Until then, there was no further contact from the school. The only call that the mother received from the school counsellor was at 4.13pm on the same day, which was to inform Benjamin that school authorities decided that he was to be excluded from the Secondary Three School Cohort Camp. After the tragic death of Benjamin at 4.20pm, the father called the school from 5pm to 6pm but was not able to speak to the principal. It was not until the next day afternoon that the principal responded and returned call to Benjamin’s father.

The police arranged a meeting on 1 February 2016 between the officers from Ang Mo Kio Police Division HQ, police headquarter and immediate family members, accompanied by Member of Parliament Mr. Louis Ng. Information was shared within acceptable limits. It was agreed between parties that discussion and information disclosed in the meeting be kept confidential until the investigation has fully completed.

There are now reports and statements from the relevant authorities that procedure will be subjected to review in regard to police questioning of minors without the presence of an adult. As Benjamin’s father, I felt this is necessary, but it came too late. It is necessary because we pray that the same treatment my son received from the police, will never ever happen again to another child.

The school, in my opinion, should never have handed over my son to five police officers during recess hours without having to wait for the arrival of family members. I hate to think of the amount of fear he had at that moment, how helpless he was then. To be escorted to the car park from the principle’s office, one student in uniform accompanied by a few adults in civilian clothes with police ID cards, how discreet this could be? I felt the embarrassment and the shame my son was subjected to.

As Benjamin’s father, it broke my heart when I later found out that my son was brought to the principle’s office with one bun on his hand; and a drink on the other from the school canteen.

I cannot understand why the teacher; or office staff did not allow my son to at least finish his food at the canteen before he or she brought him to the principle’s office. It was reported that my son was allowed to finish his breakfast before being taken to the police station. But that was after the interview. My boy had his last meal in the school, a cold bun.

Those adults that were with him at that moment, the police officers and staffs of Northview Secondary School, may I take this opportunity to tell you that my son would prefer to have his meal when it is hot.

When Benjamin finally left the police station at 2.50pm, he told his mother and sister that he was not given anything to eat, nothing to drink throughout the 3 or more hours of engagement with police investigators in the police station. At his age, my son gets hungry very fast after one meal. Just a cold bun and a drink, and we cannot be sure if he did finish the bun because he was under pressure then. Benjamin must be feeling hungry, thirsty, throughout the few hours he was with the police investigator. I can imagine the anxiety felt by my son throughout the ordeal.

As Benjamin’s father, it is now my duty to seek justice for my son. We do not know if he has indeed committed the alleged offence of “outrage of modesty” of the 11-year-old girl. Until the coroner hearing, we do not want to speculate whether the offence has indeed taken place.

That said, as parents we cannot forget and we cannot forgive the way my son was treated, from the school to the time he was in police custody. I have this to say to the school authorities. We as parents we entrusted our children to you. You have a duty to ensure that our children are appropriately taken care of, reasonably protected and have their interest in your priority.

CONTINUE...............

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 08:55 PM

CONTINUE

Open letter from Benjamin’s family to clarify what transpired on 26 January

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/open-letter-from-benjamins-family-to-clarify-what-transpired-on-26-janurary/

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

BY ONLINECITIZEN ON FEBRUARY 4, 2016 LETTERS

To the police, I have to tell you that by sending 5 plainclothes officers to one secondary school in 2 unmarked police vehicles are never discreet. You are there to look for one secondary 3 student. You are not there to apprehend an adult suspect with full ability to escape or capable in single combat.

To Benjamin’s friends and team mates from the National Police Cadet Corps, thank you for the lovely cards and your encouraging words to SGT (NPCC) Benjamin Lim. To his colleagues from McDonald’s, he loved his job and he was grateful to be part of the team. If the branch manager would allow, please give your consent for him to keep his staff’s ID card.

Last but not least, on behalf of the family, I thank everyone for coming forward to show their support to Benjamin. We have created an email account dedicated to Benjamin, [email protected]. Friends and members of public are welcome to write to us.

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 08:58 PM

Our system do not have the practise of conducting investigation together with the boy's (suspect) parents. I blame the opp parties they had experience lawyers and, they did not brought this up in the house.

Not even the time where Chiam was in his prime. JB too all no used.

Read Page 1 of this thread. WP brought this up at 2007 but was rejected by PAP Government because PAP Government said the public trust in SPF is 100%.

If this happened in Taiwan, Europe or USA, the Media will be 24/7 blowing this up and forcing the authorities to react.

But in Singapore, the Media had been very quiet and downplaying this case. The Media only only how to 24/7 blew up the WP Town Council case until it sounds so real that WP was dishonest.

But fortunately there are non-PAP controlled Media like TOC and The Independent to highlight this case else the public still thinks everything is perfect paradise in Singapore.

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 09:26 PM

Parents of 14-year-old boy who committed suicide after police interrogation pen an open letter

By The Independent -

February 4, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/parents-of-14-year-old-boy-who-committed-suicide-after-police-interrogation-pen-an-open-letter/

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

The parents of the 14-year-old student, Benjamin Lim, who committed suicide after police interrogation has written an open letter. It was first published by socio-political website, The Online Citizen. We republish the letter in full here.

–open letter–
The family of Benjamin Lim wish to express our deepest gratitude and appreciation to all friends, relatives and members of the public for your kind expression of sympathy in our time of great sorrow. There have been reports in various publications offering different versions of occurrences leading to the passing of Benjamin. This letter seeks to clarify and also provide certain information on the chain of events leading to the tragedy on 26 January 2016.

In the morning of 26 January 2016, Benjamin’s mother received a call from his mobile number. One police officer spoke to her and informed that Benjamin was being investigated for a case of “outrage of modesty” involving one 11-year-old Chinese girl outside school in the afternoon of 25 January 2016. The officer informed that Benjamin would be taken to Ang Mo Kio police station for further investigation. Benjamin’s mother asked to speak to her son, of which then the phone was given back to Benjamin. However, they (mother and son) did not managed to speak for long before phone was taken away. According to Benjamin’s mother, the officer informed that police will be contacting the family in the afternoon when Benjamin is allowed to leave the police station.

Benjamin’s mother and elder sister then rushed to the school, arrived at about 11am. At that point, Benjamin had already left the school with police officers. They spoke to the discipline master and school counsellor, and were informed that Benjamin was taken to Ang Mo Kio police station to assist in investigation. When asked for details, the staffs were only able to reveal that Benjamin was identified via a CCTV footage captured at the lift lobby in one of the HDB blocks.

On the same day at about 1pm, Benjamin’s mother received a call from Ang Mo Kio Police Division HQ informing that Benjamin was arrested and that family members may proceed to the police station to bail him out. Mother and daughter then rushed to the police station, and were told to wait at the reception area. After some time, one officer led Benjamin’s mother to the investigation office for recording of statement. It was until about 2.50pm when Benjamin was finally brought out to meet his mother and sister.

Benjamin’s mother noted that he appeared quiet, and his hands were uncomfortably cold after they left the police station. She then asked him about the alleged offence, he denied. When asked why he admitted to the police when he did not do it, he said “they said I am guilty, so I am guilty lor”. Benjamin was then told that he should not have admitted to the crime if he did not do it. Their conversation ended then as the train was approaching.

Benjamin, together with mother and sister, they went home directly. Having sensed that Benjamin was rather quiet and not his usual self, the mother got him to shower while she prepared a meal for him. She then left him alone at the dining hall, and made no further query about the offence he was alleged to have committed. It was until about 4.13pm after Benjamin’s mother received a call from the school counsellor to convey the message that the school has decided that Benjamin will not be attending the Secondary Three School Cohort Camp from 27 to 29 January 2016, and that was when they last spoke. Benjamin was told of the decision by the school’s authorities.

After a while, the mother called for Benjamin but there was no answer. Mother and sister then knocked on the bedroom door and realised that it was locked. That was the first time the door was locked. After they managed to enter into the room, there was no sign of Benjamin. One desktop fan which was supposed to be on the table; was on the floor and the window was open. They then rushed to the void deck, and Benjamin was lying motionless on the ground with his head facing down.

It was initially reported that family members had received timely updates from police and school authorities after Benjamin was taken away by five plainclothes police officers in two unmarked police vehicles. This statement was not accurate.

Benjamin’s mother was informed by police officer for the first time in the morning when Benjamin was already taken to the principle’s office. The police officer merely informed her that Benjamin would be taken to Ang Mo Kio police station for further investigation, and that the police will contact the family in the afternoon when he would be allowed to leave.

When the mother and sister arrived at the school, they were told by the discipline master and school counsellor that Benjamin was identified by CCTV footages and that no other information could be revealed. The next contact with the police was at Ang Mo Kio Police Division HQ, after the mother received a call to inform that Benjamin was arrested and she should bail him out. It should be noted at this point that the mother was taken to the investigator’s office (open plan office) for statement recording rather than being allowed to see her son.

It was not until 2.50pm before mother and sister finally saw Benjamin after he was brought out to the reception area. Until then, there was no further contact from the school. The only call that the mother received from the school counsellor was at 4.13pm on the same day, which was to inform Benjamin that school authorities decided that he was to be excluded from the Secondary Three School Cohort Camp. After the tragic death of Benjamin at 4.20pm, the father called the school from 5pm to 6pm but was not able to speak to the principal. It was not until the next day afternoon that the principal responded and returned call to Benjamin’s father.

The police arranged a meeting on 1 February 2016 between the officers from Ang Mo Kio Police Division HQ, police headquarter and immediate family members, accompanied by Member of Parliament Mr. Louis Ng. Information was shared within acceptable limits. It was agreed between parties that discussion and information disclosed in the meeting be kept confidential until the investigation has fully completed.

There are now reports and statements from the relevant authorities that procedure will be subjected to review in regard to police questioning of minors without the presence of an adult. As Benjamin’s father, I felt this is necessary, but it came too late. It is necessary because we pray that the same treatment my son received from the police, will never ever happen again to another child.

The school, in my opinion, should never have handed over my son to five police officers during recess hours without having to wait for the arrival of family members. I hate to think of the amount of fear he had at that moment, how helpless he was then. To be escorted to the car park from the principle’s office, one student in uniform accompanied by a few adults in civilian clothes with police ID cards, how discreet this could be? I felt the embarrassment and the shame my son was subjected to.

As Benjamin’s father, it broke my heart when I later found out that my son was brought to the principle’s office with one bun on his hand; and a drink on the other from the school canteen.

I cannot understand why the teacher; or office staff did not allow my son to at least finish his food at the canteen before s/he brought him to the principle’s office. It was reported that my son was allowed to finish his breakfast before being taken to the police station. But that was after the interview. My boy had his last meal in the school, a cold bun.

Those adults that were with him at that moment, the police officers and staffs of Northview Secondary School, may I take this opportunity to tell you that my son would prefer to have his meal when it is hot.

When Benjamin finally left the police station at 2.50pm, he told his mother and sister that he was not given anything to eat, nothing to drink throughout the 3 or more hours of engagement with police investigators in the police station. At his age, my son gets hungry very fast after one meal. Just a cold bun and a drink, and we cannot be sure if he did finish the bun because he was under pressure then. Benjamin must be feeling hungry, thirsty, throughout the few hours he was with the police investigator. I can imagine the anxiety felt by my son throughout the ordeal.

As Benjamin’s father, it is now my duty to seek justice for my son. We do not know if he has indeed committed the alleged offence of “outrage of modesty” of the 11-year-old girl. Until the coroner hearing, we do not want to speculate whether the offence has indeed taken place.

That said, as parents we cannot forget and we cannot forgive the way my son was treated, from the school to the time he was in police custody. I have this to say to the school authorities. We as parents we entrusted our children to you. You have a duty to ensure that our children are appropriately taken care of, reasonably protected and have their interest in your priority.

CONTINUE......

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 09:27 PM

CONTINUE

Parents of 14-year-old boy who committed suicide after police interrogation pen an open letter

By The Independent -

February 4, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/parents-of-14-year-old-boy-who-committed-suicide-after-police-interrogation-pen-an-open-letter/

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

To the police, I have to tell you that by sending 5 plainclothes officers to one secondary school in 2 unmarked police vehicles are never discreet. You are there to look for one secondary 3 student. You are not there to apprehend an adult suspect with full ability to escape or capable in single combat.

To Benjamin’s friends and team mates from the National Police Cadet Corps, thank you for the lovely cards and your encouraging words to SGT (NPCC) Benjamin Lim. To his colleagues from McDonald’s, he loved his job and he was grateful to be part of the team. If the branch manager would allow, please give your consent for him to keep his staff’s ID card.

Last but not least, on behalf of the family, I thank everyone for coming forward to show their support to Benjamin. We have created an email account dedicated to Benjamin, [email protected]. Friends and members of public are welcome to write to us.

–end–

77guy

04-02-2016, 09:32 PM

You are sick in the mind and out of point like countryman. You did not read what the dead boy's family said before commenting.

The dead boy's family said he did not do it and he was coerced to plead guilty by police.

.

U say i am sick...but u think u damn smart?? Which parents will readily admit that their son commit a shameful act of molest especially after he is dead? The boy of coz told his mum he didnt do it...u are so honest to admit every mistake u did when young to ur parents??

Lastly, the boy is out on bail...doesnt mean he wont be charged if he is not dead... i hate sillypore garment n Spf too, but highly doubt they will juz target an innocent boy without any due evidence....

siralexferguson

04-02-2016, 09:46 PM

人在做，天在看。who are we do judge?

A precious life had been lost.... All the gods up there will know what to do....

Karma shall prevail....

All deserve a second chance, even if this little boy made a mistake, educate him is more effective..... Not by using force or some threat or pressure on him.....wats the point?
Solve case within 24 hrs and meet kpi? Show and report on crime watch?

Pls be kind and think of others feelings before taking any action....

77guy

04-02-2016, 09:52 PM

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 09:57 PM

U say i am sick...but u think u damn smart?? Which parents will readily admit that their son commit a shameful act of molest especially after he is dead? The boy of coz told his mum he didnt do it...u are so honest to admit every mistake u did when young to ur parents??

Lastly, the boy is out on bail...doesnt mean he wont be charged if he is not dead... i hate sillypore garment n Spf too, but highly doubt they will juz target an innocent boy without any due evidence....

Nobody say SPF and PAP Government targeting the dead boy.

The entire discussion was HOW SPF got the confession from dead boy and the entire process from school to interrogation.

Dead boy was out on bail because of his confession which dead boy's parents said was coerced and false.

He was not charge means he was not charge, why need to mention any IFs? So many IFs, how many will happen?

The default status is innocent until proven guilty by the legal process.

You are sick in the mind because you insisted the dead boy was guilty without any factual evidence.

Are you saying every child by default will lie to parents when making mistakes? You are very lame. Dont you think your logic is too forceful?

Read what the dead boy parents have to say compare to what MOE, SPF and Media said.

If you still insist dead boy was guilty of molest just simply because SPF brought him in for interrogation. Then maybe Singapore is not suitable for you. North Korea, China and ISIS are better places for you to stay because these countries follow your logic on how to determine guilt. Authorities are always right in these countries.

k-knight

04-02-2016, 09:58 PM

Sorry to say is that the main talking point of this incident is not abt if the boy is innocent or not.

We just take it as he did it, thr whole saga is how the system should work and how they should be treating a minor. Even if he's guilty, spf should not be interrogating him when he js alone especially kids nowadays in our society. The streetwise level of 14 yo kid is like the level of 9 yo kid in the 80s and 90s..

So imagine when ur taken into the itnerview rm being interrogated by those cops and they are presurrizing you, fucking you telling you that you are a fucking sick bastard to molest a 11yo.. Trust me, those who work with the law will know this is true..

Imagine them doing this to a 9 to 10yo kid, how would u feel....
So chill for the bros out there. Its the system we are talking abt and not if the kid is guilty or not. Furthermore, om is a normal offence in many countries not as if he is a terrorist or killed someone

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 10:04 PM

Also forget to add if the 11yo victim happens to be related to u or is someone u know, will u still have the same sympathy for the boy?

You still trying to use the card which is age of the molest victim to gain sympathy for MOE, SPF and Media.

This statement shows you already know the dead boy was guilty.

So you are trying to say the dead boy deserve the treatment from SPF , MOE and Media and deserve to die because he alleged molested a 11 year girl.

So SPF, MOE and Media are now tools of justice. An eye for eye.

You are even better than the Singapore Judicial System.

Why even need Courts, Lawyers and Legal System then?

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 10:08 PM

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 10:09 PM

To the 5 policemen and School Principal

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/5-policemen-school-principal-5296159.html

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 10:25 PM

Recent court rulings & police shortcomings show system needs changes

By The Independent -

February 4, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/recent-court-rulings-police-shortcomings-show-system-needs-changes/

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

By: Andrew Loh

In recent years, the actions of the enforcement agencies in Singapore have been called into question not just by the public, but also by the courts.

Such intervention by judges is welcome and is necessary to rein in the authorities’ sometimes over-enthusiastic application of the law.

Calls for the government to relook some of these legal provisions have been made consistently over the years, and in light of the courts’ recent decisions, it is worth looking at these again, and reiterate the need (and urgency) of putting them under the microscope of review.

Access to lawyers

The recent death of a 14-year old student has brought to the fore the need for access to lawyers to be granted to accused persons, and especially juveniles or minors. It is a call which have been made numerous times by various experts, including law professors and presidents of the Law Society, along with opposition political parties.

In brief, allowing accused persons access to lawyers upon arrest is an internationally accepted practice, and Singapore is an anomaly in this, even as it trumpets its first-world status among the developed countries.

It would be entirely repugnant if all that the death of the 14-year old student results in is another piecemeal tweaking of the law which would serve no one. And there is a danger that this would be so, given the police’s statement following the boy’s death – where the authorities said it was reviewing its interview procedures regarding “young persons” and if an “appropriate adult” could be present during such an interview.

This is, as feared, a sign that the authorities are not taking a wider view of things, and will only be doing patchwork to cover holes as and when they appear. In other words, it would be like a dog chasing its own tail.

The police should in fact be reviewing – and eventually allowing – accused persons immediate access to lawyers at the point of arrest.

Rights against self-incrimination

Many Singaporeans may not know that they have a right against self-incrimination. This, in fact, is provided for under the Constitution. The police should, therefore, be required to inform the accused or suspect that he has the right to remain silent, and that he also has a right to counsel.

Parliament should remove any other provisions which currently render such rights useless – such as the vague provisions allowing access to lawyers. Parliament should correct this and insert the word “immediate” into the law, so that there can be no ambiguity as to such rights.

Parliament should also remove provisions which render the right to self incrimination useless, as law professor Ho Hock Lai pointed out in his paper. (See here.) One of these is how an “adverse inference” may be drawn against the accused if he chose to exercise this right to protect himself.

Stern warning

The Singapore High Court has made it patently clear that “warnings” issued by the police are of no consequence in law. In the recent case involving activist Jolovan Wham, who was issued a warning by the police for an event he organised at Hong Lim Park in 2014, High Court judge Woo Bih Li said:

“[In] my view the warning is still no more than an expression of the opinion of the relevant authority that the recipient has committed an offence. It does not bind the recipient. It does not and cannot amount to a legally binding pronouncement of guilt or finding of fact. Only a court of law has the power to make such a pronouncement or finding and this is not disputed between the parties.”

The police and the AGC should therefore stop issuing such warnings, be they conditional or not. The practice should be that if there is enough evidence, the authorities should charge the suspect. If not, such warning should not be issued as they are not only wholly unfair but also could be ruinous to one’s reputation.

In past cases, the police would issue such “warning” or “stern warning” and this is made known to the media, which would then promptly and prominently report them in their broadcast and print channels.

This is patently unfair and verge on defamation, given that the suspect or accused has not been charged, much less be found guilty by any court.

And as Judge Woo said, only a court of law has the power to pronounce guilt or innocence.

Singapore must adhere to the very basis of all justice systems – that one is innocent unless and until proven guilty.

Neither the Singapore Police Force nor the Attorney General’s Chambers should circumvent this principle by issuing warning letters which are then circulated to the media, resulting in a public perception of guilt.

Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act (CLTPA)

The CLTPA has been used in recent times to detain several individuals involved in match-fixing. The most notable case in recent times is that of Dan Tan, who had been held under the CLTPA for two years. He was only released in November 2015, after the Court of Appeal found that his detention was “illegal”.

TODAY reported:

“Delivering the 80-page judgment, CJ Menon said the detention was “beyond the scope of the power vested in the Minister, which was to detain persons in the circumstances where activities of a sufficiently serious criminal nature threatened to or did undermine public safety, peace or good order in Singapore”.”

Three other members of his ring were also subsequently released from detention but put under the CLTPA after the courts’ decision on Dan Tan’s case.

The problem with detaining them under the CLTPA is that they are being held without trial, and indefinitely.

According to Channel Newsasia:

“Section 30 of the CLTPA allows for a person to be detained for up to a year if such action is “in the interest of public safety, peace and good order” subject to yearly reviews, which may be extended. The law is typically used against criminals of organised crime and has historically been used against drug kingpins, loansharks and members of secret societies.”

TODAY reported that the Court of Appeal had found Tan’s detention “was unlawful and the Home Affairs Minister had overstepped his powers in locking Tan up without trial.”

Even so, Tan was held for two years without any access to the court to challenge his detention.

The police, however, re-arrested Tan a few days later after his release last November.

It would be good if the authorities could explain what exactly the CLTPA – which was formerly used to detain those involved in criminal gangs, organised crime, and drug trafficking – should be used for; and if there are no other provisions to deal with those such as Dan Tan.

Should they also not be given their fair day in court to defend themselves?

Hong Lim Park no foreigner rule

IN Mr Wham’s case mentioned above, the police had brought him for questioning over the alleged involvement of foreigners in the event at Hong Lim Park. The rule for use of the park prohibits such participation by non-Singaporeans and non-permanent residents. Mr Wham and his co-organiser, Rachel Zeng, had in fact made this rule known to the foreigners who were there.

Still, Mr Wham was hauled up and subsequently issued a “stern warning” for it.

There are many events held at Hong Lim Park to date, and the most notable would be Pink Dot, an annual gathering of pro-LGBT supporters. In the last edition, a reported 26,000 people turned up, with many of them foreigners, decked out in pink and participating enthusiastically in the festivities.

The question then is obvious: why has none of them (or the organiser) been hauled up similarly and questioned by the police?

Should not the enforcement of our laws be consistent and fair? Is it time to remove such stipulations in the rules for the park?

Protection from Harassment Act:

Finally, the High Court in December last year laid down that the “Government” does not constitute a “person” under the Protection from Harassment Act (PHA), and thus the “Government” cannot invoke the Act against a blog site.

Judicial Commissioner See Kee Oon, in making this ruling, overturned the earlier one by a district court which had ruled in favour of the government.

The Attorney General, representing the government, has filed an appeal to the Court of Appeal on JC See’s ruling; and the blog site is objecting to the appeal for leave.

Be that as it may, it is worth our time to ponder on what Parliament intended when it instituted the PHA – looking not only at the specific letters of the law but also (perhaps more importantly) the spirit with which that particular law was enacted.

I would argue that, from the readings of the parliamentary debates on the Bill, it is patently clear that the PHA was intended to protect the truly vulnerable from abuse; and not to allow the government or its agencies – which are publicly accountable ones – to use it for its own purpose.

Conclusion

It is time for Singapore to look seriously at some of these practices in its legal and justice system, and improve on them for the benefit of its people and those who practise within the system.

For sure, there are many more such shortcomings or questionable provisions which should be highlighted for possible changes. But for now, these mentioned above should provide some food for thought.

—
Republished with permission from: https://andrewlohhp.wordpress.com.

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 10:29 PM

Boy’s death – a police review of procedures not enough

https://andrewlohhp.wordpress.com/2016/02/02/boys-death-a-police-review-of-procedures-not-enough/

The death of a 14-year old boy now puts the question of access to lawyers for an accused at the doorstep of Parliament.

The boy, a secondary three student, had apparently committed suicide after being interviewed by the police for an alleged offence of “molestation”. That was the offence he is deemed to have committed, according to the police statement released on 1 February 2016. (See here.)

The police also said that it “will review and address” the issue of whether “to allow an appropriate adult to be present when a young person is interviewed.”

First, let us be clear about one thing: no one knows exactly why the boy took his own life. Any suggestions on the reasons are at best speculation at this point in time, given that police investigations are still ongoing; and that eventually the coroner would also have to weigh in on the matter.

So, let us hold off on the finger pointing, especially that directed at the police. It would be most unfair to lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of the police officers involved.

Second, there have been suggestions that the offence of molest is a non-seizable (arrestable) one. This point was raised seemingly to cast blame on the police officers who had reportedly arrested the boy in his school. (According to news reports, the boy was later released on bail.)

This too is inaccurate.

“Molest” is equated with the offence of outrage of modesty, and depending on the definition or the actual act of offence, it can be an arrestable offence.

The Singapore Legal Advice website explains:

“The use of the term “outrage of modesty” originates from section 354 of the Penal Code which criminalises the offence of the “assault or use of criminal force to a person with intent to outrage modesty“. The use of criminal force is a key element.”

And further:

“As for what it means to actually outrage someone’s modesty, there appears to be no easy answer to this question. The Penal Code does not expressly define ‘modesty’. This may be partly because views about what constitutes an outrage to modesty may vary over time and according to the context in which the incident occurs, as well as the race or religion of the victim.”

And importantly, even if an offence is non-seizable, it does not mean the police cannot arrest the perpetrator:

“For non-arrestable offences, the police cannot make any arrests without a warrant.”

In other words, for non-arrestable offences, the police can arrest you provided they have a warrant to do so.

Now, those are two points about the specific case of the boy.

Let us now turn to the third point, which some have raised – that of allowing an accused access to lawyers or legal counsel.

The Law Society of Singapore (LawSoc) has, the last few years, been consistently calling for such access to be granted.

In his speech at the opening of the legal year in January, LawSoc president, senior counsel Thio Shen Yi, repeated the call.

SC Thio said such a right “is itself a manifestation of the rule of law.”

In Singapore, however, such a right is not one of immediate access upon arrest. Instead, it is to be given only “within a reasonable time”, as the Court of Appeal (CA) reinforced in May 2014. The CA said this was “settled law” and dismissed the application made by lawyers M Ravi and Eugene Thuraisingam for access to their client, James Raj.

“The practical application of “reasonable” is fraught with ambiguity, there is inherent elasticity in the idea,” SC Thio said in his speech.

While the police must be allowed to do their jobs effectively, this must be balanced against the rights of an accused, the senior counsel added.

“[An] accused may be detained for days, or even weeks, without access to a lawyer,” he said. “We need to re-evaluate whether this is fair or desirable. From the Bar’s perspective, the aspiration is access to counsel sooner, rather than later. It is a positive externality, its availability encourages public respect for our Criminal Justice System, and its absence, doubt in its fairness. In this, we are all stakeholders.”

You can read the transcripts of his speech here.

SC Thio, however, is not the only one making the call.

In a 2013 paper, titled “The Privilege against Self-incrimination and Right of Access to a Lawyer: A Comparative Assessment”, law professor Ho Hock Lai of the Law Faculty at the National University of Singapore, made the same points.

Prof Ho compared the practice in Singapore and elsewhere in the world, and highlighted the deficiencies in the former.

For example, he said that unlike in other countries where the police must inform the accused of his right to counsel at the point of arrest, such a thing is not required of police officers here.

“In Singapore, the right to a lawyer is constitutionally entrenched,” Prof Ho wrote. “But, as the constitutional provision has come to be interpreted, the accused need not be informed of this right and he has no right to exercise it immediately upon arrest.”

Prof Ho also said that the law in Singapore provides for the right against self-incrimination, where an accused can remain silent. However, if he does so, an adverse inference may be deduced against him in court or during his trial.

He explained:

“In determining what counts as a “reasonable” period, the protection of the accused, his need for legal advice and the importance of the right against self-incrimination are not ranked as highly as they should be and as they are under internationally respected standards.”

It is well worth reading Prof Ho’s paper. Click here.

Finally, SC Thio said “[the] need for Counsel is amplified given that an accused can be convicted on the evidence of their confession alone, even if they subsequently recant.”

“The trial should not start at the police station. We do not believe that early access to counsel will preclude an effective and fair investigation. They are not trade- offs.”

He added, “Investigating authorities must therefore audit their mind-sets periodically. To the extent that the reluctance to allow quicker access to Counsel is predicated on a worldview that lawyers are unethical or may hinder or obstruct an effective investigation; that assumption must change.”

So, while it is all very well that the police is now reviewing its procedure vis a vis police interviews of accused persons, it is the law itself which should be made explicitly clear – to grant immediate access to accused persons at the point of arrest and that such a right be made known to the accused.

The courts have no power to change laws, but only to interpret them. And the CA has upheld earlier court decisions that immediate access to lawyers is not a constitutional right.

This runs counter to international standards and practice, and is also fraught with inconsistencies (as pointed out by prof Ho and others), with rights – such as the one against self-incrimination – rendered useless by other provisions.

Parliament should change this, in light of what has happened not only to the 14-year old student, but also what had happened to 16-year old Amos Yee (who was held in remand for a total of 50 days, in both Changi Prison and at the Institute of Mental Health), James Raj and many others, in fact.

While a review of police procedures during an interview is welcome, it is however not enough.

The change must be substantive and in the law.

Singapore should catch up to international standards in granting such rights to its citizens.

It is time for Parliament to heed the call and to act on this.

*Post-script: Do note that the police’s review is only limited to an accused who is a “young person”, and only on whether “an appropriate adult” should be allowed to be present during an interview. There is no mention of access to lawyers or legal counsels. The right to access to counsel should, in fact, be extended to all.

k-knight

04-02-2016, 10:31 PM

You still trying to use the card which is age of the molest victim.

This statement shows you already know the dead boy was guilty.

So you are trying to say the dead boy deserve the treatment from SPF , MOE and Media and deserve to die because he alleged molested a 11 year girl.

So SPF, MOE and Media are now tools of justice. An eye for eye.

You are even better than the Singapore Judicial System.

Why even need Courts, Lawyers and Legal System then?

Yap agreed. Seems that Sg, schools already find the boy guilty even before the investigation process. (School already kick the boy out of their school camp upon this interrogation)

If the girl is a 15 or 16 yo teenager, i will still believe the boy might hv molested her. But the qn now falls into the stand that does a 11yo girl knows what is molesting? When I was young, I always thought that a simple touch is consider a molest. Especially if she is only 11yo, people in her sch will always jest saying touching is molesting. The boy might hv accidentally touched her and she thinks that is a molest. Even if she tells the story to her parents and they deem as molest and bring her to the police is not as accurate as well..

Bottomline is the whole system sucks, the police are given too much power. Some might argue that police in the 70s are corrupted and nowadays everything is transparent.
Please!!!!! Now police seems to be above the law, it is only transparent on the outside. It is rotting in the inside, put it simply, its SPF ( Singapore PAP Force)

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 10:51 PM

[TOC NEWS] Open letter from Benjamin’s family to clarify what transpired on 26 January

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/%5Btoc-news%5D-open-letter-benjamin%92s-family-clarify-what-transpired-26-january-5296236.html

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 10:56 PM

Will SPF make an episode of Crimewatch about 14 year old Benjamin?

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/will-spf-make-episode-crimewatch-about-14-year-old-benjamin-5296414.html

kuasimi

04-02-2016, 11:07 PM

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

The email for Benjamin's family has been terminated for no apparent reason. The father said that he was replying the emails halfway at about 7pm before he was informed that he was signed out from the account. He tried logging back into the account but was told that the email account no longer exist.

Therefore, the family is forced to create another email account to receive emails from friends and members of public. The new account is [email protected]

If you have sent them any email, please do resend the email. The family intends to print out and collect the letters to show the overwhelming support to Benjamin.

TOC has sent an enquiry to Yahoo for its statement on how an email account can be terminated in the said circumstances.

sadfa

04-02-2016, 11:25 PM

Will SPF make an episode of Crimewatch about 14 year old Benjamin?

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/will-spf-make-episode-crimewatch-about-14-year-old-benjamin-5296414.html

Haha.

If they do that, it'll be the biggest load of bs garbage propaganda since they make those movie n musical portraying old man as handsome garang well loved guy married to Sharon au. But we all know ....

They might as well get that piece of shit bootlicker jack neo as special director so they can smear Benjamin to the max n show io getting Benjamin hot milo n Benjamin breaking Down, crying n confessing n io hugging Benjamin n consoling him n promising to take care of him.

k-knight

05-02-2016, 12:21 AM

Haha.

If they do that, it'll be the biggest load of bs garbage propaganda since they make those movie n musical portraying old man as handsome garang well loved guy married to Sharon au. But we all know ....

They might as well get that piece of shit bootlicker jack neo as special director so they can smear Benjamin to the max n show io getting Benjamin hot milo n Benjamin breaking Down, crying n confessing n io hugging Benjamin n consoling him n promising to take care of him.

Wow bro, I almost spill out my beer n peanuts when i read this.. compare to many countries, crime watch is truly a freaking disgrace. Its all propaganda, the police are like ants, they go out in groups, they can use 5 cops to catch a kid, 8 to 10 police to catch wl working in spas and 20 over policemen to catch ah long runners. N in sg, 90% of the victims surrender peacefully unlike those in crimewatch showing 1 v 1 n showing the culprits trying to struggle off..

When you need 5 cops to nab a kid, 10 police for a spa, 20 policemen for ah long runners and 30 to 40 plainclothes to nab a drug addict, read this drug addict, not drug trafficker. It shows how this country is abusing the taxpayers money

kuasimi

05-02-2016, 03:53 AM

http://themiddleground.sg/2016/02/04/bertha-henson-on-death-of-benjamin-lim/

by Bertha Henson

PEOPLE are upset. A 14-year old has died. And people are making a link between the police interrogation/interview Benjamin went through and his suicide a few hours later. His parents are upset. They are convinced that the heavy-handed treatment meted out to their son by the police was unnecessary. Five policemen to pick up a boy at his school? A telephone call to his mother that was cut short? And what happened during the interview when he was asked about accusations that he had molested an 11-year old girl?

Police haven’t said very much about whether they thought he was guilty or not. The Police statement said that he was released on bail, which means that he was arrested and questioned and had given the assurance that he would return to the station or attend Court when told to do so. The open letter from his family said that Benjamin had “admitted to the police” that he committed the crime even though he told his family that he did not do it.

There is a CCTV recording of the interview, but there’s also a coroner’s inquiry pending. Saying too much would be in contempt of court. Benjamin’s words to his mother “They say I’m guilty, then I’m guilty lor’‘ might hint at some form of bullying, but it doesn’t really prove anything at all. He might have molested the girl; He might not have. Some people may say suicide is proof of guilt; But most think he was just traumatised by what had happened. And his father has penned an eloquent letter that he said recorded what had happened that January 26 when his son was led away by police with one hand holding a cold bun and a drink in the other.

He made it clear that he found the behaviour and attitude of Northview Secondary School and the police to his son unacceptable.

“As Benjamin’s father, it is now my duty to seek justice for my son. We do not know if he has indeed committed the alleged offence of “outrage of modesty” of the 11-year-old girl. Until the coroner hearing, we do not want to speculate whether the offence has indeed taken place.

“That said, as parents we cannot forget and we cannot forgive the way my son was treated, from the school to the time he was in police custody. I have this to say to the school authorities. We as parents we entrusted our children to you. You have a duty to ensure that our children are appropriately taken care of, reasonably protected and have their interest in your priority.

“To the police, I have to tell you that by sending 5 plainclothes officers to one secondary school in 2 unmarked police vehicles are never discreet. You are there to look for one secondary 3 student. You are not there to apprehend an adult suspect with full ability to escape or capable in single combat.”

There are plenty of issues here but the key issue which has emerged is whether an underage youth who is all of 14 should have had an adult present with him during police questioning. There is no legal requirement for this although other jurisdictions have some guidelines. For example, in the UK, when police detain or interview a child or young person (aged 10 to 17), they “must inform an appropriate adult as soon as is practicable and ask them to attend.” The BBC says that the system was “introduced in the 1980s following miscarriages of justice involving vulnerable people,” but it is underutilised.

In the state of New South Wales, Australia, any statement or information given to police by a child is inadmissible as evidence unless a lawyer representing the child or an adult responsible for the child is present during such testimony.

In many other jurisdictions, including the USA, all persons have the right to seek legal counsel immediately after being arrested. Singapore allows access to a lawyer within a “reasonable time” after an arrest.

There is plenty of sympathy for Benjamin’s parents because Benjamin could have been their son too, as our writer Brenda Tan wrote earlier. He was such an average, normal teenager. He was young and wouldn’t know his rights. He would have been easily intimidated by the police into saying he was guilty. He was no Amos Yee or some pai kia.

But so what if he was?

In a statement on February 1, the police made it clear that it wasn’t as if Benjamin was put in a small room and given the third degree by a battery of investigators. He was interviewed by one Investigation Officer at his workstation in an open plan office with other workstations.

“The Police have been asked whether it should review the procedure to allow an appropriate adult to be present when a young person is interviewed. The Police will review and address this issue.”

This is an opaque statement, given that police did not say what the process is – or whether there is a process in the first place. Anyone reading the statement would also be wondering at the term “appropriate adult” – unless they know of the Appropriate Adult Scheme administered by the Movement for the Intellectually Disabled of Singapore which started this year. The scheme requires that an adult, who may or may not be a parent, be present when persons with intellectual or mental disability are required to give a statement to the Police during investigations.

But what are the implications of extending this scheme to minors? In fact, how many minors are taken in for questioning every day or every week? How many have had police picking them up from school and brought straight to a police station? It’s probably been happening for years and to hundreds of minors.

Going by statistics, 1,369 juveniles (7 years old or above and below 16 years old) were arrested in 2014. In the same year, 322 juveniles were admitted into Ministry of Social and Family Development’s (MSF) Boys’ and Girls’ Homes.

Some quarters have wondered if treating minors with “kid gloves” would mean compromising law and order efforts. Having to wait for an “appropriate adult” to be present, for example, would mean that more time would have to be expended on investigations which might actually be quite straightforward – for example, minors apprehended in the course of a gang fight. Or you might have protective parents insisting that they would be the most appropriate adult for any matter concerning their child.

But if you go by the principle that minors are a vulnerable group, then that “appropriate adult” must be found and more time must be taken to handle investigations involving minors. It is longer, even messier, but it is the right thing to do.

In the United Kingdom, for example, there are trained networks of “appropriate adults” who can be called upon when a minor has to be questioned.

According to the Youth Justice Board, their responsibilities include:
•to support, advise and assist the child or young person while detained or interviewed by police
•to be present when police request consent for, or carry out, various procedures such as fingerprinting, photographing, intimate and strip searches
•to ensure that the child or young person understands their rights and that you have a role in protecting their rights
•to observe whether the police are acting properly, fairly and with respect for the rights of the child or young person and to tell them if they are not.

Other countries which are more populous than Singapore have done it, although with varying degrees of success. On this tiny island of households with just one child or two, would it not be possible to build a similar network of trained volunteers?

In Singapore, some steps have been taken in recent years which recognise that children need special protection. For example, the Family Justice Courts were set up in 2014 with a special focus on shielding children in divorce cases, such as appointing child representatives from a panel of seasoned family lawyers to be the child’s independent voice in court. The MSF will also have more agencies providing a supervised visitation programme by the end of this year.

Of course, in these cases, the children are “victims” rather than the “accused”.

The similarity: They are children.

Featured image by Natayssa Diana.

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tryying

05-02-2016, 10:19 PM

All those officers, their top etc, one day will be treated badly by own children! The boy dies and the eyes wouldn't close, really feeling bad for him. Karma is there, just wait and see! :mad:

sadfa

05-02-2016, 10:34 PM

All those officers, their top etc, one day will be treated badly by own children! The boy dies and the eyes wouldn't close, really feeling bad for him. Karma is there, just wait and see! :mad:

don't have karma la.

Marcos, suharto, the grandfather n father from north Korea n you know who never stood trial for wad they did n some got commit genocide, assassinate kill people like drink water, ruin peoples life.

They die naturally in deathbeds even if They were ill before dying

kuasimi

05-02-2016, 10:51 PM

kuasimi

05-02-2016, 10:53 PM

Father with dementia, forced to confess to a offence by police

By onlinecitizen on February 5, 2016 Social Justice

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/father-with-dementia-forced-to-confess-to-a-offence-by-police/

The following experience was submitted to TOC by a member of the public, and as the mentioned case is still under investigation, a couple of details have been omitted for privacy reasons.

L recounts the story of her father who was investigated by the police for an offence he clearly did not commit

The story of 14-year old Benjamin Lim who jumped to his death after unaccompanied police interrogation is the by-product of a relentless abuse of power by the Singapore Police Force that has gone unchecked over the years.

My father has had dementia for the past four years, and he lost his ability to make any sound decisions or engage in any meaningful conversation two years ago. Last August, a huge team of 6 to 7 police officers came down to my house to apprehend my father for a spate of theft cases that have been happening in my neighborhood for the past month.

My family immediately advised the investigating officer that it was not possible for my father to be involved in this crime because of his illness, and he would definitely be unable to answer any of the officer’s questions due to his inability to comprehend any conversation.

However, without explaining the nature of the crime, nor accounting to the family members, the investigating officer brought my dad back to the police station, ignoring our protests and insistence that he was unfit to be kept in detention.

A week after my dad was released, we were still struggling to figure out what was going on. The investigating officer had made no attempt to communicate with the family, despite repeated reminders to the officer that my father had no capacity to be in interrogation and that the officer should be talking to my dad’s immediate family members.

The investigating officer said: “This is all part of protocol.” We later discovered that “protocol” meant that mentally ill patients could be freely interrogated by a group of police officers from 2 pm to 4am, with the police officer repeatedly telling him: “Sign this document, and everything will be alright”.

My father was FORCED to sign a statement confessing to the crime before he was allowed to be released on bail. He told us that he spent the entire night shouting “I am innocent” through the bars of the jail cell.

Three months later, a separate investigation led to a thief being apprehended in the neighborhood, and the thief was linked back to my father’s case. A police officer visited us and asked my father, “Why did you confess to a crime which you did not commit?”. My father didn’t respond. He had no idea what the police officer was even saying.

If the real thief had not been apprehended, my father would just be yet another victim of this intolerable abuse of power.

Why is the Singapore Police Force allowed to run unchecked when investigating minors and disadvantaged citizens in this society? If this is “protocol”, then perhaps it is time to revisit this “protocol”.

How many more “Benjamin Lim” incidents do we need before the Singapore Police Force realizes the need for a change in protocol?

kuasimi

05-02-2016, 10:55 PM

SDP: Ministers’ silence on Benjamin Lim’s suicide troubling

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/sdp-ministers-silence-on-benjamin-lims-suicide-troubling/

By onlinecitizen on February 5, 2016 Politics

The Singapore Democratic Party (SDP), in its latest statement, calls upon the Singapore Government to fully account to members of the public over the incident involving the death of 14-year-old, Benjamin Lim.

On 26 January, Benjamin was visited by five plain-clothes police officers at school during school hours over an alleged case of molestation. He was then brought to the police station to be interviewed for over 3 hours without the accompaniment of his parents. Soon after reaching home, he locked himself in his room and jumped to his death from the 14th floor of his flat. (read more)

The party statement, penned by Dr. Wong Souk Yee, SDP Chairperson said it would have been common sense for authorities to proceed with caution while dealing with minors and the priority of the school authorities should have been the protection of students’ welfare.

SDP also voiced its concern over the silence of the ministers from the Ministry of Education and Ministry of Home Affairs and said that the ministers should address the situation and see how the matter can be resolved and future incidents prevented.

The statement by SDP in full

The SDP expresses our deepest sympathies to the family of Benjamin Lim. His suicide is a tragedy that could have been avoided.

There is a reason why the law and society treat minors differently from adults: They are presumed to not possess the full maturity in thought and deed as adults.

Common sense would have indicated to the authorities to proceed with caution when dealing with minors. Yet, five police officers were dispatched to arrest the boy.

Even if the police were concerned that Benjamin would not be co-operative and could overpower the officers and escape, how far could he have run? And even if he did make a getaway, did the police not have his family, school and classmates that they could contact?

Also of concern is whether the number of officers sent to arrest Benjamin signaled an aggressive police mindset that was carried over into the interrogation room.

School officials must be aware that their duty is, first and foremost, to protect students’ welfare as well as their families’ interests.

Doing this would not impede law enforcement officers from carrying out their duty. It would, on the other hand, help to prevent tragedies like Benjamin’s suicide from taking place.

But there is something else that is equally disconcerting. The Ministers for Law, Education, and Home Affairs have kept silent on the matter.

Given that a teenager has committed suicide resulting from a series of actions involving the police and the school, it behooves the Ministers to, at the minimum, address the situation and see how the matter can be resolved and future incidents prevented.

Instead of looking into the matter, Todayonline runs a headline saying: “MPs, experts laud police review of interview process involving minors”.

Why are MPs and the media not speaking up on investigating the circumstances that led to a 14-year-old committing suicide after police interrogation? Instead, they are lauding the review of a procedure that should not have been in practice in the first place.

In any developed country, the standard operating procedures (SOPs) would require minors to be accompanied by a parent, guardian or lawyer during interrogation. Its SOPs would also require video recordings of all police interrogations.

Without these protections of minors’ rights, indeed the rights of all persons under interrogation, we will never know the treatment meted out to Benjamin during the three hours or so in police custody.

The public is upset over this incident and deserves full accounting from the Government.

kuasimi

05-02-2016, 10:58 PM

Student said plainclothes officers at school, wore T-shirts with ‘Police’ at its back

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/student-said-plainclothes-officers-at-school-wore-t-shirts-with-police-at-its-back/

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/student-said-plainclothes-officers-school-wore-t-shirts-%91police%92-its-back-5296744.html

By Terry Xu on February 5, 2016 Social Justice

Due to the public outrage over the case of the Benjamin Lim, the fourteen-year-old who was found dead on 26 January at the foot of his flat after apparently jumping down from the 14th floor, both the Singapore Police Force (SPF) and the secondary school that Benjamin studied in, have clarified that the whole process of the police visiting the school for Benjamin was discreet due to the plainclothes officers and the use of unmarked vehicles.

It is noted that Benjamin had been interviewed by the police unaccompanied for his alleged involvement in a case of molestation

The police in its statement on Monday (1 February) wrote, “In this case, a Police report was lodged about a molestation. Based on CCTV evidence, Police officers went to conduct enquiries at a school. To keep investigations discreet, the officers went in plainclothes and in unmarked cars.”

The school principal was quoted by The New Paper on 30 January to have said, “When the plainclothes police officers came to the school, we were discreet in bringing the student to the office to meet with the police.”

So based on the statements made by the police and the school, the five police officers who turned up at the secondary school were wearing plainclothes and therefore not recognisable as police officers.

At least, that is what they say.

TOC has spoken to a parent of a student studying in the same secondary school with Benjamin, and the accounts of her son gave a contrasting picture.

According to her son, he had went near the principal office on that Tuesday (26 January) and knew that there was something big happening.

The son had told her that he was aware of the incident before the news came out that night because he had gone to the principal’s office during recess and saw the police gathering there.

She asked how he knew the people were police when they wore plainclothes. The son laughed and replied, “They wearing the T-shirts with the word, ‘POLICE’ at the back what!”

The mother asked if the term ‘plainclothes’would be technically classified for such attires. The mother also said that she is aware that the school is affiliated with a community-based police subdivision, however, she is not certain if some of them were present at the time.

She added that in her son’s opinion, it was very apparent that someone was in big trouble that day.

TOC has written to the police for comments and will update when they respond.

Do you have a news tip, firsthand account, information or photos about a news story to pass along to us? Visit this page or email us at [email protected]

kuasimi

05-02-2016, 11:03 PM

Case of Benjamin Lee – Schools should know that not standing the way of the law is not the same as blind compliance to police requests

http://theindependent.sg/case-of-benjamin-lee-schools-should-know-that-not-standing-the-way-of-the-law-is-not-the-same-as-blind-compliance-to-police-requests/

By The Independent -

February 5, 2016

By: Ghui

The recent tragedy of Benjamin Lee left me pondering if we as a society have taken the concept of efficiency too far. Efficiency is no doubt important. It keeps the wheels of administration turning. It makes Singapore economically viable. It makes life convenient.

But has the quest for speed and efficacy led to a society that is so process driven that it no longer employs common sense?

The open letter penned by Benjamin’s bereaved father was a sobering read that made me realise that it wasn’t just the police who failed Benjamin. It was the entire model our society is based on that led to this untimely and needless death.

First and foremost, we have guidelines in place from MOE stating that the school is obliged to cooperate with the police and “not stand in the way of the law”. But what does “not stand in the way of the law” mean? What is the law in the first place in such investigations? It would seem that in our blind adherence to the “system” we are not thinking critically or asking any questions.

Subconsciously, we have assumed that obeying the police is tantamount to not standing in the way of the law. Surely, the police are not the law? They are simply law enforcers who enforce the law in accordance to certain standards. Have we confused the law with the enforcers?

Secondly, what is the standard that the police should follow? Are these clear enough to ensure that both the public and the police themselves understand the remit of their rights?

Have we become so conditioned to accept everything that comes from a figure of authority that we don’t even question if there are limitations to that authority?

Isn’t that what happened here with terrible consequences?

The school has not hitherto demonstrated that it questioned the basis of the police’s investigations. Nor has it been proven that the school tried to keep Benjamin in school until his parents arrived.

From the way events have been reported, it would appear that the school did everything it could to comply with police demands without due consideration for what Benjamin may be feeling or thinking. It appeared that the school gave the police the benefit of the doubt without offering the same courtesy to its own pupil.

We are so conditioned to obey the law that we don’t even stop to consider what the law actually is. Whether Benjamin should have been taken to the station or remained in the school is not a legal issue at all.

“Not standing in the way of the law” does not mean that the school has to do everything a person of authority says without question or compromise. It would seem that all the police wanted to do was to ask questions. Could the questions not have been asked in the privacy and security of an empty office or meeting room?

It seems to me that the school administration did not even stop to consider the alternatives. It simply blindly complied with what law enforcement had to say without any thought to what the law actually said or what the objectives of the investigation were.

The police were guilty of the same “one size fits all” approach. So ingrained to “follow the system” that the officers did not even stop to think of different tactics for different interviewees.

Sending five plain clothes police to pick up a school boy is surely over the top and should be reserved for a gang of hardened criminals as opposed to a lone schoolboy. While I am not dismissing the traumatic nature of an outrage of modesty, it is not a violent crime that merits a team of plain clothes police officers!

Clearly, the police wanted to unnerve Benjamin to get the truth but has it crossed their minds that there are many ways to skin a cat? Plainly, the police only have one weapon in their arsenal – that of intimidation.

They assumed that a show of force was the only way to close the case without further consideration for what methods would be best to elicit the truth from different subjects! Another example of blindly following precedents without taking the time and ownership of the task at hand to think deeper!

Another issue of concern is in relation to the ascertainment of truth. Are the police simply interested in closing the case or in finding the truth? From the statements uttered by Benjamin, it would seem that he felt coerced to confess to a crime he did not commit because the police already pre charged him as guilty.

Has our quest for efficiency at all costs increased incidences of inaccuracy?

While standard operating procedures are necessary as a framework, they do not mean that we hide behind these procedures and throw our brains away. We still need to apply our minds to ensure that the right methods are being deployed for the right situations.

In this case, neither the police nor the school in question has done this. In their attempts to follow the rules, they have disregarded common sense, compassion and logic which led to this devastating but entirely preventable outcome.

Hopefully this incident will jolt us out of the false security of the “system” and force us to employ our minds in every situation and to take ownership and initiative. From the public outcry,

I am hopeful that lessons will be learnt. It is just regrettable that someone had to die for this debate to even begin.

sadfa

05-02-2016, 11:03 PM

sadfa

05-02-2016, 11:12 PM

[B][SIZE="4"]Shanmugam, Minister of Law, and Home Affairs

[B][SIZE="4"]Student said plainclothes officers at school, wore T-shirts with ‘Police’ at its back 9.html[/url]

Police will say not counted.

Cos you see ppl wear full body inspector t shirt, you'll remove yr clothes n let them inspect?

kuasimi

05-02-2016, 11:22 PM

The truth is these police aren't fit to be police.

No morals, no compassion, can't differentiate right from wrong, its no exaggeration to say some crooks are better human beings than them. Not to mention some looks so fucking unfit don't know they got pass fitness test.

Of cos these fuckers take after their equally unsuitable political overlords.

Singaporeans not as brave as Hong Kong people to protest at Police HQ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVjP-mktEQ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YhfiXH4FCo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ4Cg6TUTNE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjjCY-dDSlU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCOtD0OkpLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ncuhIuqmg

sadfa

05-02-2016, 11:33 PM

Singaporeans not as brave as Hong Kong people to protest at Police HQ.

https://www.youtube.com/watcktEQ8

https://www.youtube.com/w4FCo

https://www.youtube.c6TUTNE

https://www.yCY-dDSlU

Pui la!

In Taiwan, a ns man tekan to death in db.
Taiwanese had 2 peaceful demonstration
One got 200,000 people.
This is a true country standing up for their fellow citizen who was bullied in an abuse of power n can't defend himself anymore.

In spore? How many ppl got oppressed bullied made example of like jbj, tang, chee. And sporeans did wad?
Not surprising spore will be fucked up forever.
Even prcs know wad is right n willing to stand for it.

And if people want to talk in Hong lim park about Benjamin or march in demonstration to shanmugams house, they have to get permission from the police.

Who the fuck so stupid think they'll give?

kuasimi

05-02-2016, 11:36 PM

Shanmugam, Minister of Law, and Home Affairs - your deafening silence on Benjamin Lim's death..???

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/shanmugam-minister-law-home-affairs-your-deafening-silence-benjamin-lims-death-5297060.html

Student said plainclothes officers at school, wore T-shirts with ‘Police’ at its back

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/student-said-plainclothes-officers-school-wore-t-shirts-%91police%92-its-back-5296744.html

If 14 yr old Benjamin was from American Sch, Tanglin Trust or United World College, would the police

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/if-14-yr-old-benjamin-american-sch-tanglin-trust-united-world-college-would-police-5297059.html

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12651344_1033128266748505_2398265422680586958_n.jp g?oh=43facd911fdf636d37b3c4b2cb252cbf&oe=5724D606

https://www.facebook.com/358759327518739/photos/a.360220640705941.85354.358759327518739/1033128266748505/?type=3&theater

Either Shanmugam's vocabulary or his intellectual capacity is severely limited, provided he has any.

CreDitSuiSSe

06-02-2016, 01:06 PM

Interesting views shared here.

CreditSuise

06-02-2016, 01:44 PM

Interesting views shared here

FuLuSh0u

06-02-2016, 02:09 PM

Very interesting views shared here

kuasimi

06-02-2016, 09:31 PM

Going to ask liao.

Questions like we know spf is the best. Pls confirm everything is done by the book or pls confirm Benjamins death nothing to do with you. Or are more policemen going to wear shorts when cycling?

15k not easy to earn ok.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsgx_ZeSW58

ComplainKing

06-02-2016, 09:41 PM

In this case is the suspect considered to be Juvenile or adult ?

sadfa

06-02-2016, 09:54 PM

In this case is the suspect considered to be Juvenile or adult ?

No difference la. Fetus they'll oso take action.

ComplainKing

06-02-2016, 09:58 PM

No difference la. Fetus they'll oso take action.

So if the suspect is convicted of molestation he will be sent to Changi village irregardless of his age ?

kuasimi

06-02-2016, 10:00 PM

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12646955_1034420696619262_1510295975004172074_n.jp g?oh=2bec1528187797bfd231a5e9d4754e49&oe=573AAE6D

https://www.facebook.com/358759327518739/photos/a.360220640705941.85354.358759327518739/1034420696619262/?type=3&theater

In other countries, we will hear a statement of commiseration and acceptance of responsibility from the minister in charge.

In Singapore, we can only hear the cricket.

kuasimi

06-02-2016, 10:00 PM

In this case is the suspect considered to be Juvenile or adult ?

As per thread title, dead boy was a minor.

kuasimi

06-02-2016, 10:09 PM

https://www.facebook.com/joohymn2015/posts/223213291351276

The suicide of Benjamin Lim has been deeply troubling for me, and I’m sure many parents. Most of us can imagine our child being in a similar situation as Benjamin, which is why his suicide has hit so close to home.

The sequence of events, which are slowly being revealed, are cause for great concern. I think it reveals several deficiencies in policies, beliefs and assumptions.

“Anonymous neighbour”

I have not read anything further about who made the initial complaint. If anyone has more information, please do let me know.

1. Are there clear and sensible procedures for determining whether anonymous complaints are to be investigated? How did the police know this complainant was to be trusted? How did the complainant know about the molestation which took place in a lift?

2. The news report said the CCTV showed Benjamin getting into the lift with a girl, and the alleged molest happened in the lift. Was the CCTV footage considered sufficient evidence for interrogating him? Would it in all cases of molest and sexual assault?

3. What is the normal procedure for investigating sexual crimes? The alleged molest happened the day before, and police were already at Benjamin’s school before 11am the following day. Are all sexual assaults investigated with such speed and promptness? (That does not seem to be the experience of at least some women, from what I have heard anecdotally).

4. If the neighbour was indeed anonymous, this is a process potentially open to abuse. Someone with a grudge can make an anonymous phone call and complain of anything against anyone. Are there sufficiently robust procedures in place to ensure this does not happen?

Five police officers arrived at school

Really, honestly, five?! To arrest a 14-year-old boy? His home address and school are known, was there really a chance that he might escape? Or was it for dramatic effect, to scare the living daylights out of the boy? Surely a trip to the police station would have been enough to achieve this.

“Plainclothes” or otherwise (t-shirt with the word “Police” at the back), kids are not stupid. In fact, there are very astute. They would have taken one look at the situation and surmised that something very serious was going on. A boy in uniform escorted to the Principal’s office with a bun in one hand and a drink in the other, where five strange men were hanging around.

Stigma of sexual crime

We live in a society where sex is problematic, when you have it, how much, with whom etc. But at the same time, sex offenders are seen as being much worse than other kinds of criminal. Imagine how Benjamin must have felt, thinking that he would be known as a “色狼” (pervert) and that the school (ie. his teachers and friends) considered him so awful/dangerous that he was not allowed to attend camp the next day.

School not standing in way of the law

This is where our culture of complete obedience and trust in authority shows itself. Police personnel are humans, and sometimes, humans make mistakes. We don’t take this into account often enough.

We assume that the police are correct when they make arrests, and therefore, we assume that the person arrested should be interrogated, and that lawyers or other persons do not have to be present.

There are countless examples of miscarriages of justice the world over, where mistakes were made by police officers, coroners, judges etc, and innocent people were jailed for years, decades, or sometimes even sentenced to death.

This could also be where the proverb “宁可杀错，不可放过” (it’s better to wrongly kill an innocent, than to let a guilty party off) holds true. Our criminal system is stacked against the accused. In instances such as this, it becomes clear that some more protection is needed for those under investigation.

School not letting Benjamin attend camp

1. We are so accustomed to putting the family, community, organisation etc before the individual. Keeping a person charged with molestation away from a group of co-ed students is probably in the best interests of the girls.

It is definitely in the best interests of the school, because they cannot be accused of not having taken necessary precautions. But was it in the best interests of Benjamin, who was innocent till proven guilty. Could there have been other options? Or minimally, could the news have been conveyed to him in a gentler way?

2. This was not some ‘pai kia’ (bad) boy. If, as has been reported, he did very well in his uniformed group and even won an award, then were his teachers not surprised by his arrest?

If this was something out of character, did the school tell the police officers that? Could the counsellor have spent more time with him, or visited him after he was at home to convey the news to him in person and with some pastoral care thrown in?

3. Unfortunately, this is not the first instance of a school wanting to “cover backside” and protect its reputation. What is it in our system that encourages school administrators to think like that?

Could there be something wrong with our meritocratic system, where schools are ranked and reputation is incredibly important?

There have been calls for reviews, as well as calls for the individuals involved to be brought to account. I do not think that either will be effective in achieving long term change. There are so many things that are ingrained in our system, that are ingrained in our very being, that we need fundamental change from inside out.

Less judgment

To paraphrase what Ajahn Brahm once said in one of his talks, he has been to many prisons, but he has never met a single criminal. He has never met a single criminal in all the prisons he has been to. He has met plenty of people that committed a crime, but not a single criminal.

As I said, we are all human, and we are all fallible. So many times I have thought, there but for the grace of God go I. Many of us thought about doing things that were wrong, some of us tried, and a few of us got caught. We all make mistakes, some bigger than others. Let us all be more forgiving and understanding.

Respect

We group people and classify some of them as “others”, who are less than we are. Less intelligent, less able, less trustworthy etc. Sometimes, these “others” are of a different race, or religion, or socio-economic background.

Sometimes, they’re of a different age. We assume children (or elderly) to be less able than us. Would the police officers assume that if five of them marched into an office, and one man was escorted, by a manager, from the cafeteria, holding on to a bun, that the rest of his colleagues would assume nothing was wrong?

More questioning

Could we stop assuming that people in power generally do not make mistakes? Could we question their decisions more, especially where individual lives are affected?

Could we have a system where individual have more rights? The interests of the community, organisation etc could still be at the forefront, but there is room to increase the rights of the individual.

Expectations

Benjamin had a cold lunch, was escorted out of school by five police officers, brought to a police station, questioned for three hours without food, before his mother was allowed to bring him home, and informed that he could not attend camp the next day via a curt phone call. It is a lot for a 14-year-old to handle, and after the fact, it is obvious.

What do our children and workers go through daily that are hard for them to handle, but that we do not see? The amount of stress 12-year-olds have to go through: do homework from school, practise musical instrument/dance go prepare for performance/exams, train in sports to win at competition, have tuition to excel at exams, prepare DSA portfolio, prepare interview, excel at PSLE….

The stress the foreign workers go through: far away from home in a foreign land, with different language, different customs, different way of life, different way of working, different equipment/tools, different habits, no friends, cannot socialise, get scolded etc……

Can we learn to cut the people around us some slack and have more empathy for them? Can we lower our expectations a little?

Are we willing to have a situation where every school really is a good school, where the reputation of a school isn’t that important after all?

Can we all do something so that we do not read about another gut-wrenching incident?

Edit to include:
tl;dr: many mis-steps by many people, we are all responsible, shall we all do something to prevent such things from happening in future.
and corrected my proverb - thanks for pointing out the error.

sadfa

06-02-2016, 10:10 PM

So if the suspect is convicted of molestation he will be sent to Changi village irregardless of his age ?

I think so. But for minor cases can put to boys home but don't think molest they'll let him go. Anyway boys home fucking worse, rape is a distinct possibility compared to jail.

But they not stupid they won't put him with adults.
He will b with kids around his age, which can be worse or if really no kids, which is unlikely, he will b alone, which can b lagi worse.

kuasimi

06-02-2016, 10:30 PM

Respect the law and be law abiding u won't have to go through being lock-up n TWICE some more! Goosh, seriously u should reflect on yourself instead of blaming the SPF! What treatment are u expecting to get? It is a police lock-up n not club med. U expect the policeman or policewoman to say nice consoling words to u ah! Spare a thought for the constables, u think it is so easy handling criminals in the lock-up everyday? They are also earning a decent living out there.
Please lah, grow up n wake up your ideas!

Tell that to Alex Ong. Getting lock up does not mean he did a crime or is a criminal.

Alex Ong if it is the same Alex Ong that pushed a senior citizen down a bus, has a medical condition that affects his social behaviour.

Dr Chee Soon Juan and JB Jeyaratnam was jailed before but they were never criminals because they got lock up for non-crime reasons.

But given your logic that school was right not to let dead boy go school camp just in case he will molest school girls in the school camp.

Then maybe USA President Bill Clinton should not be invited to Singapore in case he ask Singapore Civil Servants assigned to him to do blowjobs for him like intern Monica Lewinsky.

Then maybe Minister Shammugam should not remarry since his wife divorce him before.

Then maybe Singapore should not allow sports cars on the roads in case there is another accident like the red Ferrari crashing into a taxi.

Then maybe....It is endless.

Please remember dead boy was only a suspect assisting police investigations. He was not charge yet or pronounced guilty yet under Singapore's Legal Process.

The school should not have pre-judged the dead boy and played too safe for the school camp.

The Kiasi and Kiasu Syndrome are in the schools, how not for Singaporeans to be Kiasi and Kiasu too?

sadfa

06-02-2016, 11:12 PM

[IMG]https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.

[url]https://www.facebook.com/358759327518739/photos/a.360220640705941.85354.358759327518739/1034420696619262/?t

In other countries, we will hear a statement of commiseration and acceptance of responsibility from the minister in charge.

In Singapore, we can only hear the cricket.

No la.

In any real country, even if they have nothing to say, the minister or president will come out n say something like stay calm, some motherhood statement of all children are protected etc.

They won't keep quiet, hide n let civil servants issue statements. This shows the cowardice, uncertainty n cluelessness of these leaders which the press n media will condemn.

So It's very very disturbing these ministers can keep quiet. And really shows how fucked up spore is.

The police n school must b damn worried cos if ministers keep on keeping quiet, it means they can come out anytime to back stab the police n school after gauging public sentiments.

And i won't b surprised if some jackass minister wanted to come out n say come on! Benjamin deserved it. Just say it in public la n he was told off by others - you diam diam better. Understand.

kuasimi

07-02-2016, 12:13 AM

Wende11a

07-02-2016, 11:15 AM

I wonder given the amazing speed SPF operated for this dead boy's case, could the 11 year old victim and anonymous neighbour be related or friends to one or all of the 5 Policemen?

This would maybe make the 5 Policemen more rash on the head when interrogating dead boy.

It is like somebody you know ask for help or rescue, then you bring down your brothers to help or rescue.

How long does police take to come ar?

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/how-long-does-police-take-come-ar-5297799.html

Thank you for sharing your point of views.

Wendy11a

07-02-2016, 12:50 PM

KuanYimMa

07-02-2016, 06:08 PM

TheDestiny

07-02-2016, 06:31 PM

Those police who interrogate him should get sack and one of them should dead. One life pay one life.

sadfa

07-02-2016, 08:11 PM

Those police who interrogate him should get sack and one of them should dead. One life pay one life.

Wont la.

I bet these mother fuckers no conscience.
Benjamins wake I can bet never even turn up or go or even stand 500 m away to pay respects.

Already 7 days liao.
I hope Benjamin visit them.
Make sure they pee green puss, lose weight, lose hair n their breath got rotten smell n even their police specialist can't find explaination.

sadfa

07-02-2016, 08:40 PM

I wonder would the son be his usual insensitive self n post on Facebook how different cny is without his father this year, when there's no garbagements statement or condolences to Benjamins family.

I bet Benjamins family having a miserable cny by putting an empty plate out for him n buying his favourite food.

kuasimi

07-02-2016, 11:11 PM

UNSEEN video of 2013 little india riot

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/unseen-video-2013-little-india-riot-5298547.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeBKOLPbyKA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUuKIOWlR1A

kuasimi

09-02-2016, 10:21 PM

FIDH: Singapore government fails to address key human rights concerns during UN review

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/fidhsingapore-government-fails-to-address-key-human-rights-concerns-during-un-review/

BY ONLINECITIZEN ON FEBRUARY 8, 2016 INTERNATIONAL

By FIDH – International Federation for Human Rights

The Singaporean government failed to address important human rights concerns that were raised during the country’s second Universal Periodic Review (UPR), FIDH said today.

The UPR was held in Geneva, Switzerland, on 27 January 2016.

“With regard to civil and political rights, the Singapore delegation went on an all-out defense of the status quo based on order, stability, and cultural relativism and their statements showed complete disregard for international human rights standards,” said FIDH President Karim Lahidji.

The highest number of recommendations that Singapore received (55 out of 236) called for the ratification of core international human rights instruments.

In response, the government delegation claimed that while Singapore was not a party to certain human rights treaties, its government’s policies were “generally in compliance with their substance.”

This claim was contradicted by remarks made by several members of the Singaporean government’s delegation made during the review.

With regard to the death penalty, Singapore received 13 recommendations that called for progress towards abolition. Twenty countries recommended the Singaporean government re-establish a moratorium on executions. The government defended capital punishment as “legitimate” to deter the most serious crimes, including drug trafficking. This explanation runs counter to UN jurisprudence, which has repeatedly stated that drug-related offenses do not meet the threshold of the “most serious crimes.”

In response to the five recommendations that called for the abolition of corporal punishment as a legal penalty, the government delegation justified the measure by saying that the use of corporal punishment was “guided by necessity and proportionality” and was administered under “highly-regulated conditions.” The government’s justification is contrary to the absolute prohibition of torture and other cruel, inhuman, or degrading punishment, which is a peremptory norm of international law.

In response to four recommendations that called for the amendment of legislation that allows for lengthy pre-trial detention, such as the Internal Security Act (ISA) and the Criminal Law Temporary Provisions Act (CLTPA), the government delegation extolled the benefits of these laws in combating “serious organized criminal activities” and “the threat of terrorism.” However, the delegation failed to address the key issue of pre-trial detention as a violation of the fundamental right to liberty. UN jurisprudence has repeatedly stated that pre-trial detention should be an exception and should be as short as possible and that factors justifying the detention should not include vague standards such as ‘public security’.

Singapore received 12 recommendations that called on Singapore to ensure the realization of the right to freedom of opinion and expression. The government delegation claimed that no one in Singapore was prosecuted for “merely criticizing the government or its policy” and warned that freedom of speech must be exercised “in accord with the need to preserve a harmonious society.” UN jurisprudence has long urged the decriminalization of defamation and has stated that imprisonment is never an appropriate penalty. It has also declared that “the mere that fact forms of expression are considered to be insulting to a public figure is not sufficient to justify the imposition of penalties.”

Singapore also received six recommendations that urged the government to ensure the realization of the right to freedom of peaceful assembly. The government delegation responded by justifying the severe restrictions on the exercise of this right with the need to ensure “society’s need for order and stability.” These criteria fall short of internationally accepted standards, which require that any restrictions to the right to freedom of peaceful assembly be necessary and proportionate. International standards also stress the principle that a peaceful assembly should be presumed lawful and deemed as not constituting a threat to public order.

With regard to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Intersex (LGBTI) rights, Singapore received 12 recommendations, 11 of which called for the repeal of Article 377A of the Criminal Code – a clause that criminalizes sexual activity between consenting men. The delegation justified the government’s failure to repeal the British colonial-era provision by saying that Singapore is “basically a conservative society” and that authorities did not “proactively enforce” Article 377A. The UN has for long recommended to abolish laws used to criminalize individuals on grounds of homosexuality for engaging in consensual same-sex sexual conduct.

“The Singaporean government has been churning out its obsolete arguments against internationally accepted human rights standards for too many decades. It’s time they move forward with implementing the necessary legislative and institutional reforms that would make Singapore a truly modern, rights-respecting country,” said FIDH Secretary-General Debbie Stothard.

FIDH urges the Singaporean government to implement the recommendations it received during its second UPR concerning the ratification of key international human rights instruments, the death penalty, pre-trial detention, corporal punishment, LGBTI rights, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, the right to freedom of peaceful assembly, and the right to freedom of association, and to set time-bound benchmarks for their implementation.

The recommendations that Singapore has accepted will be known by the 32nd session of the UN Human Rights Council, to be held in June 2016.

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 01:08 AM

https://www.facebook.com/STReview

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

https://www.facebook.com/The-Alternative-View-358759327518739/

https://www.facebook.com/allsgstuff

https://www.facebook.com/Fabrications-About-The-WP-1557465997912132/?rc=p

https://www.facebook.com/The-Workers-Party-Volunteer-Network-695421570592834/

https://www.facebook.com/WPgrassroots

http://wpcf.sg/

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 01:09 AM

The bizarre behaviour of the Honourable Home Affairs Minister K Shanmugam

By The Independent - February 11, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/the-bizarre-behaviour-of-the-honourable-home-affairs-minister-k-shanmugam/

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

By: Yoong Siew Wah

“Nero fiddled while Rome burned”. This famous quote could not be more poetic in portraying the bizarre reticence of the Honourable Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam when the whole of Singapore is agitated and livid over the questionable tactics of the police in the handling of the case of a 14-year-old student Benjamin Lim which resulted in his tragic suicide.

Minister K. Shanmugam is known to be very loquacious at other times especially in his crusade against the cruelty of cats. Does this mean that a human life is less worthy than a cat in his lofty views? Just like the Chinese saying: To treat the people like grass.(視人民如草芥).

A young life has been cut short which could be attributed to his traumatised experience at the hand of the police. While Singaporeans are questioning the antiquated police procedure in dealing with a minor and are waiting for a decent answer from the police, it is beyond logic and belief that the Honourable Minister K. Shanmugam could be turning a deaf ear to all these deafening rumblings by Singaporeans for social justice.

The public would certainly like to know what he has to say about the questionable police tactics and the tragic suicide of the minor. The police department comes under his control and it is incumbent upon him to give his unbiased views on the issue.

On the other hand the police seem to be dragging their feel in the long overdue review of their antiquated procedure in dealing with minors. While they are sitting on their arses wrangling among themselves, there may be another tragedy waiting to happen.

How can they be impressed of the urgency of finding a quick solution to the problem? They seem to be waiting for a cue from their Honourable Minister which is taking a long time to come. So the opening quote of “Nero fiddled while Rome burned” is not misplaced.

PM Lee Hsien Loong has prided himself on a prompt and efficient civil service. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say on both the police tardiness in reviewing their procedure and the funkiness of Minister K. Shanmugam in giving his views on such a grave matter.

The Minister for Education could also not escape the admonishment of the public for staying aloof of all these discreditable happenings. Did he not find something remiss in the conduct of the principal of the school and should not there be a review of the procedure in the handing over of a minor to the police for investigation making it less stressful to the minor?

Benjamin Lim was in a state of starvation and the principal would be remiss in not noticing it. And his tardiness in responding to the minor’s father who called him after his son’s suicide cannot be condoned. He returned the call only the next day.

—
Republished from Mr Yoong’s blog ‘Singapore Recalcitrant’.

The erudite Mr Yoong was the Director of Singapore’s Internal Security Department (ISD) from 1971 to 1974. He was Director of the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (CPIB) in the 1960s, and had a distinguished career in the Singapore Special Branch in the 1950s.

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 01:11 AM

NCMP Dennis Tan on Benjamin Lim’s case: Don’t let public confidence in police be adversely affected

By The Independent - February 11, 2016

http://theindependent.sg/ncmp-dennis-tan-on-benjamin-lims-case-dont-let-public-confidence-in-police-be-adversely-affected/

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

http://theindependent.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/wpdennistan.jpg

Workers’ Party member and Non-Constituency Member of Parliament (NCMP), Dennis Tan, has weighed in on the case of the 14-year-old boy, Benjamin Lim, who committed suicide after police interrogation.

Extending his deepest condolences to the parents and family of the boy, Dennis said that he had initially wanted to wait for the authorities to report its findings on the case before commenting.

The NCMP said that he expected the authorities to carry out a thorough and impartial investigation on the entire incident, including on how the interview was conducted. The authorities should also let the public have the full details of the investigations in due course, he said.

This is to ensure that “public confidence in the police force will not be adversely affected by this incident,” Mr Tan remarked.

The opposition party member pointed out how in many other countries, it is a common practice for a minor to be accompanied by an appropriate adult (e.g. parent, guardian, lawyer, social worker or even an adult of his choice) when the minor is being questioned by police, but is “sadly not the case for Singapore so far”.

Mr Tan welcomed Singapore Police Force’s recent announcement to review its procedures on the interrogation of minors.

“I hope that the review will result ultimately in improvements to the current law and protocols,” he said.

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 01:12 AM

Chee Soon Juan: Minister Shanmugam’s silence in Benjamin Lim’s case is disturbing

By The Independent - February 11, 2016

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

http://theindependent.sg/csj-shanmugam-benjamin-lim-case-disturbing/

By: Dr Chee Soon Juan
Secretary General, Singapore Democratic Party

In October last year, a 4-year-old boy fell to his death from an open window that had no grilles. Back then, Mr K Shanmugam spoke up very promptly, writing on his Facebook:

“One can understand the parents’ anger, anguish. To lose a child like this because someone has not done what he is supposed to have done. And the conduct after the tragedy is shocking. There must be steps taken against such contractors – if what the father says is correct. We must help the family to get legal recourse. It won’t bring back the child, but there has to be some justice done. I have told them we will help find a lawyer for the family.”

Mr Shanmugam was angry – and justifiably so. Still, his aggressive tone was surprising. After all, he didn’t possess, at least at the time he wrote his post, all the facts pertaining to the episode.

This is why his silence on the Benjamin Lim’s matter is especially disturbing (Mr Shanmugam is the Minister for Home Affairs as well as the Minister for Law). In Benjamin’s case, the police have even, in not so many words, admitted culpability when they said they would review the procedure when it came to questioning minors.

Yet, the Minister has not uttered a word or even commiserated with the Lim family. The silence is awkward, to say the least.

—
Republished from Dr Chee’s FB.

https://www.facebook.com/cheesoonjuan/?fref=nf

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 01:34 AM

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12742287_10154820579618849_5368737021940876722_n.p ng?oh=14cce7d9d0ea9459825f26d16f1b48ac&oe=57392249

https://www.facebook.com/The-Alternative-View-358759327518739/#!/cheesoonjuan/photos/a.10150092386688849.272020.79314173848/10154820579618849/?type=3&theater

In October last year, a 4-year-old boy fell to his death from an open window that had no grilles. Back then, Mr K Shanmugam spoke up very promptly, writing on his Facebook:

“One can understand the parents’ anger, anguish. To lose a child like this because someone has not done what he is supposed to have done. And the conduct after the tragedy is shocking. There must be steps taken against such contractors – if what the father says is correct. We must help the family to get legal recourse. It won’t bring back the child, but there has to be some justice done. I have told them we will help find a lawyer for the family.”

Mr Shanmugam was angry – and justifiably so. Still, his aggressive tone was surprising. After all, he didn't possess, at least at the time he wrote his post, all the facts pertaining to the episode.

This is why his silence on the Benjamin Lim's matter is especially disturbing (Mr Shanmugam is the Minister for Home Affairs as well as the Minister for Law). In Benjamin's case, the police have even, in not so many words, admitted culpability when they said they would review the procedure when it came to questioning minors.

Yet, the Minister has not uttered a word or even commiserated with the Lim family. The silence is awkward, to say the least.

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 02:16 AM

S$6,063 – the price of justice for Jolovan Wham

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/jolovan_Hongkong-702x336.png

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/s6063-the-price-of-justice-for-jolovan-wham/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

By onlinecitizen on February 12, 2016 Commentaries

By Jeannette Chong-Aruldoss

On 22 December 2015, the High Court handed down a judgment which clarified the legal effects of a police warning. Wham Kwok Han Jolovan v AG [1] (“Jolovan’s case”) clarified that police warnings are merely expressions of opinion that the recipients had committed an offence, but do not otherwise have any legal effects on its recipients.

The judgment was the outcome of a Judicial Review application by Jolovan Wham to quash (i.e. void) a police warning administered to him. As the Court held that there was no decision in the warning administered to Jolovan for the court to quash, the Court dismissed Jolovan’s application with costs.

On 1 February 2016, the High Court ordered Jolovan to pay S$6,063 in costs to the Attorney-General (“AG”) for his failed court application. The amount was arrived at after discounting 20% off the amount sought by the AG, to take into account aspects of the process by which the warning was issued.

I am disappointed with the AG for seeking costs against Jolovan and with the Court’s decision to order Jolovan to pay S$6,063 in costs to the AG.

Before Jolovan’s Case

The practice of issuing warnings in lieu of prosecution is not a creature of statute or regulated by legislation. Before the decision in Jolovan’s case, the implication of receiving a police warning was mired with uncertainty.

In a seminal article by lawyer Tan Hee Joek “Be Warned of the Stern Warning” published in the Law Gazette in 2013[2], the author said:

“… local cases have shown that a stern warning may still be relevant in judicial proceedings as a criminal antecedent for sentencing and for related civil claims”.

The author cited five reported cases in which the prosecution had brought the accused’s prior warnings to the attention of the sentencing judge. One of those cases was PP v Tan Hiang Seng[3], which I shall say more about. The author concluded that the five cases showed that police warnings can have adverse effects for the recipients.

PP v Tan Hiang Seng

Of the five cases cited by Tan Hee Joek in his 2013 article, three of them were referred to by Justice Woo Bih Li, the judge in Jolovan’s case.

Of the three cases, Justice Woo found that in two of them, the court did not actually take into account the previous warnings when sentencing the accused. But Justice Woo agreed, and AG conceded, that in PP v Tan Hiang Seng, the court certainly did take into account a prior warning to the accused while considering the issue of sentence. On this point, Justice Woo stated in his judgment that a court is not entitled to treat a warning as an antecedent or as an aggravating factor since it has no legal effect and is not binding on the recipient.

I looked up the case of PP v Tan Hiang Seng. In pressing for a custodial sentence, the prosecution in that case informed the court that the accused had been given a stern warning for taking his mother’s identity card without her permission. The judge in that case said in her grounds for sentencing:

“… the accused had taken his mother’s identity card without her permission. This was itself an offence of theft. He was given a stern warning by the police for this. I considered this an aggravating factor.”

The judge sentenced the accused to 4 weeks’ imprisonment and a fine of $2,000.

PP v Tan Hiang Seng is a clear instance where the court when sentencing an accused, had considered the fact that the accused had been warned by the police to be an aggravating factor.

The AG can’t run away from PP v Tan Hiang Seng. Small wonder that in Jolovan’s case, Justice Woo noted:

“… the AG submitted that it would be wrong for a court to take into account a prior warning, whether as an antecedent or not, for the purpose of sentencing and he stressed that the prosecution would not in future mention a prior warning to a court for the purpose of enhancing a sentence.”

Hence, the AG admitted that the prosecution’s practice of informing the sentencing judge of prior warnings was wrong and that they would stop doing that in future.

This means that the prosecution in PP v Tan Hiang Seng (and in each of the four other cases cited by Tan Jee Joek) erred by telling the court about the accused’s prior warning; and the judge in PP v Tan Hiang Seng erred in considering that factor when sentencing the accused in that case.

Looks like poor Mr Tan Hiang Seng’s sentence was unfairly enhanced. Now that Jolovan’s case has brought those mistakes out in the light, is there justice for Mr Tan Hiang Seng? Would the AG take the initiative to review Mr Tan Hiang Seng’s sentencing? To right the wrong, to set the record straight? Or is all that water under the bridge?

S$6,063 to the AG

Mr Tan Hiang Seng’s case is long over, but Jolovan’s case is still live, as he has now been ordered to pay the AG the sum of S$6,063 for “failing” his court application.

As Tan Hee Joek’s article shows, before Jolovan’s case, there were concerns that police warnings could have adverse implications for the recipients. Given the prevailing legal opinion, we cannot fault Jolovan for being motivated to apply to Court to quash the police warning.

Apart from uncertainty over the legal implications of police warnings, the circumstances faced by Jolovan make the cost order imposed him seem unfair.

Concerning Jolovan’s visit to the police station on 25 March 2015, Justice Woo declared at paragraph 1 of his Judgment that “it was not even clear whether a warning was administered”. Jolovan asked for a copy of the Notice of Warning, but his request was denied. Justice Woo also criticized the wording of the Notice of Warning and called it “poorly drafted”.

On 4 May 2015, Jolovan called the police to enquire about the outcome of the investigations against him. The police told Jolovan that a warning had been administered to him on 25 March 2015. When Jolovan tried to engage them further, he was stone-walled.

On 9 May 2015, Jolovan wrote to the police and protested the issuance of a warning against him. He did not receive a reply. On 23 May 2015, he wrote to the Attorney-General’s Chambers to similarly protest the issuance of the warning against him. Again, he did not receive a reply. Jolovan then went ahead to file his application for judicial review.

Let’s step into Jolovan’s shoes. How the police engaged Jolovan – the way he received his warning and how he was subsequently stone-walled – left much to be desired. In Singapore, we do not have any independent commission or body which can bridge the gap between the police and civilians at the receiving end of police actions. What else could someone in

In Singapore, we do not have any independent commission or body which can bridge the gap between the police and civilians at the receiving end of police actions. What else could someone in Jolovan’s shoes have done? Jolovan has no way to protest the issuance to him of the warning. Jolovan’s only recourse was to seek the Court’s help by applying for Judicial Review.

Unfortunately, Jolovan has now been penalised with a cost order of S$6,063. The decision to impose the cost order sends the ominous signal that Justice is only available to those who can afford it. Often, for someone aggrieved by a decision made by a state agency, application to Court for Judicial Review is the only recourse. If he wants to apply to Court for Judicial Review, he had better make sure he has the requisite financial means to see the application through. Jolovan’s experience shows that applying to the court for help carries the risk of having to pay costs to the AG.

CONTINUE......

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 02:17 AM

CONTINUE

S$6,063 – the price of justice for Jolovan Wham

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/jolovan_Hongkong-702x336.png

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/s6063-the-price-of-justice-for-jolovan-wham/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

By onlinecitizen on February 12, 2016 Commentaries

By Jeannette Chong-Aruldoss

Loser Pays

The legal basis for ordering costs against Jolovan is the principle “costs follow the event”. On this principle, the loser has to pay the winner’s legal costs. This principle works well most of the time.

But there is a strong case to suspend this principle when the applicant is an aggrieved civilian seeking the Court’s help against the heavy hand of state action. Without protection from adverse cost orders, no one will dare to complain against state action, for fear of being slapped with cost orders in the event that the Court upholds the decision taken by the state agency.

In Jolovan’s case, the Court regarded him as having lost his bid, and therefore he has to pay costs to the other side, which in his case, is the AG. Had the AG decided not to seek a cost order against Jolovan, there will be no issue of costs to decide. For Jolovan’s case, the AG in their wisdom decided to seek costs from Jolovan. As to why the AG so decided, I do not know, but they did.

But did Jolovan really “lose”? Jolovan’s application was to quash the warning he received. In the end, the Court decided that since police warnings are not “decisions” but merely opinions, there was nothing to quash. The logic being that the Court cannot quash something which cannot be quashed.

But wait – if there is nothing to quash, can it be said that Jolovan’s application to quash the police warning has failed? Jolovan’s case is not one in which the Court upheld a decision, but one in which there was no decision to affirm or quash. But it seems that no decision to quash means that Jolovan’s application has failed and his case is lost.

Public Interest

While Justice Woo has deemed Jolovan to have “lost” his case, Jolovan has won for the general public a much-needed clarification on the legal effects of police warnings. Justice Woo razed 20% off the amount sought by AG, to take into account the AG’s various mis-steps. Justice Woo should have given Jolovan a much higher discount to recognise the public interest elements in Jolovan’s case.

The principle that the loser has to pay the winner’s legal costs should be suspended for someone in Jolovan’s shoes, a civilian who has no other avenue that to seek the court’s help for his predicament. Jolovan’s case is an application for Judicial Review by an individual who is aggrieved by a certain action taken by the police against him. Such cases have a strong element of public interest as they concern the interaction between individual rights and state powers.

In cases where there are strong public interest elements, the civilian applicant should be given protection from adverse cost orders. Such protective measures operate as safeguards against abuse of state powers. Without protection from costs, aggrieved individuals on the receiving end of state actions, will be inhibited from bringing their grievances to court, for fear of cost implications.

It should be noted that when an individual contends with the state, it is a David vs Goliath scenario. The individual is handicapped by the limits of his personal resources. The state has the armada of the AGC to avail of.

Appeal?

Jolovan is entitled to appeal against the S$6,063 cost order. But I can fully understand if Jolovan decides not to appeal. For if Jolovan appeals, he risks being slapped with a further cost order in the event that the Court decides to uphold the S$6,063 costs order.

S$6,063 is already a lot of money for an individual to fork out. To take on further exposure to legal costs would be daunting. It will certainly be safer for Jolovan to cough up the dough and be grateful for the clarification given by the court that the warning he received has no legal effect.

Jolovan’s case is a cautionary tale that Justice comes with a price tag.

[1] Wham Kwok Han Jolovan v Attorney-General [2015] SGHC 324[2015]

[2] Law Gazette – “Be Warned of the Stern Warning”

[3] [2012] SGDC 484, also read “Barred punter fails in appeal against jail“

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 02:22 AM

Benjamin’s death: Out of The mouth of ministers

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/benjamins-death-out-of-the-mouth-of-ministers/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/CNY_LHL-702x330.jpg

By onlinecitizen on February 11, 2016 Letters

By Law Kim Hwee

Out of the same mouth of the PAP cabinet- eerie silence and empty words.

As a father of two sons and a daughter, I have had the good fortune of seeing and watching all three grow and blossom in their own special ways – and live – past their tender teen age of 14. I can’t say that I can identify or adequately empathize enough with how Mr & Mrs Lim, parents of Benjamin, must be going through since their son’s painful, untimely death.

I hope that our ministers in the current cabinet – with children of their very own, especially those who are of Benjamin’s age and especially, the Minister of Home Affairs, the 2 newly-appointed young Education Ministers and, not least, the PM himself, as their leader, with his own bevy of grown-up children – will pause to think more deeply beyond their party’s desire to project a mythical image of flawless leadership, of not admitting to mistakes in a timely manner as befits an unfortunate event such as the death of a boy, a son of Singapore. That they would look deeper into their own hearts, their own souls to reflect on the even deeper anguish of Benjamin’s father, mother, sister and brother. And the heartfelt sadness of us Singaporeans.

No one is blaming anyone in the police or the school to have intentionally wished Benjamin his death. Nor, for that matter, any ministers or the PAP.

Neither has anyone remotely suggested that the police not be allowed to do a thorough, hopefully, objective review to improve on the protocols that have resulted in a precious, young life lost forever. And whilst they are at it to, hopefully, call to account any lapse or heavy-handedness or neglect by those whose actions or inactions might have contributed to Benjamin’s unacceptable death.

Likewise, the MOE and its protocols.

What is so profoundly inexplicable, is for the ministers whose responsibilities the police and the school come under, to be completely silent over Benjamin’s death.

No word of comfort. No word of solace for Mr & Mrs Lim and Benjamin’s sister and brother? No signal to Singaporeans that any such incident or such death is just plain irrefutably unacceptable of Singapore society, whether we are Third or First World?

In place of silence from the relevant ministers, listen to what the PM himself preached, not just this CNY but in 2015, too:

In a Chinese New Year message on his Facebook account, 18 Feb 2015, PM Lee ostentatiously begins with

“Chinese New Year is a time to celebrate with our families. It is a time to reflect on the blessings of having a family – to thank our elders for what they have done for us, to appreciate our spouses, to shower love on our children. It is a time to enjoy the simple goodness of family.

….The Government is doing all it can to help people build strong families.

….Strong families are the bedrock of our society. Family members not only take care of each other. They laugh and cry together. Every member is shaped by every other. Our families inspire us to be better, not just for ourselves but for each other. Our families are always there for us, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse.”

Again, in his 2016 CNY message, he sings a similar refrain, “Besides babies, family is also about living a full life, experiencing joys and sorrows over a lifetime together with our loved ones – from being a child, growing up, finding love, starting and bringing up a family, growing old together. So when I watched this video, I thought it encapsulated what family really means. This is why the family is such an important building block of society. It is the model of how we should relate to one another as fellow citizens, seeing one another as members of an extended Singapore family.”

Only the irredeemably deaf or daft will not hear the deafening, empty hollowness of PM Lee’s words in the context of his colleagues’ total silence over Benjamin’s death and all our sorrow.

What are we as citizens looking to Ministers for leadership in times of grief at Benjamin’s horrifying, devastating death to make of the ministers’ silence on the one hand (it’s been 16 days since) and, on the other hand, the platitudes of the PM’s preaching? How can it be that out of the same mouth of the PAP cabinet proceed eerie silence on Benjamin’s life lost but wonder words on the importance of family members?

We are not suggesting that unfortunate happenings cannot befall one’s life. But surely we are not solely homo economicus or Benjamin just another brick in the wall. A leadership devoid of emotional underpinnings cannot hope to grow and lead citizens with emotional bonds to the land or be unified. Or is the message here, ‘Be self-reliant, Mr and Mrs Lim!’?

What does it take for ministers to come forth with words of comfort, of solace for Benjamin’s parents and sister? Was PM Lee’s only takeaway, from watching the video, the beautiful-sounding words and idea of “seeing one another as members of an extended Singapore family”? Is that all? Is that it? Only inspiring words. But, but, BUT, Mr Prime Minister, Sir, why have you not a kind word to Benjamin’s grieving ma, pa, sister and brother – your, our extended Singapore family members?

Do and can ministers only cry when a Mr Lee Kuan Yew passed on in his ripe old age? But not for a 14-year old who took his own life?

Or, God forbid, will that only come about if and when one of your minister’s or MP’s own child meets with a similar fate?

Justice for Benjamin can wait. Comfort, to be meaningful, cannot.

RIP, dear Benjamin.

We are all truly, madly and deeply sorry for you, Mr & Mrs Lim and Benjamin’s elder sister and elder brother.

Mr Law also blogs at 2econdsight.wordpress.com

http://2econdsight.wordpress.com/

kuasimi

12-02-2016, 02:25 AM

COI needs to be held to determine level of accountability of police and school

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/coi-needs-to-be-held-to-determine-level-of-accountability-of-police-and-school/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

By onlinecitizen on February 11, 2016 Letters

The content below is a letter sent to TOC for publication

By Tan Hua Lim

Reading the responses to the tragic demise of Benjamin, one cannot help but conclude that North View Secondary School (NVSS)’s abdication of responsibility and police’s vague protocols had, in no small measure, been a significant factor in causing the death of 14-year-old Benjamin Lim.

Benjamin’s school, NVSS had chosen to entirely honour its “obligation to the police” while ignoring its duty of care when Benjamin’s parents should have been contacted immediately, delaying his trip to the police station until his parent’s arrival.

Reactions to this tragedy showed that fear of the police had been successfully instilled not only among Singapore’s general population but that this fear virus had even infected other government departments. How else to explain the abdication of the principal’s primary duty of care and instead choosing to discharge his “obligation to the police”? Was NVSS’s principal so overwhelmed by the appearance of five T-shirt wearing police officers in an unmarked car that he forgot that, as the principal of the school, he too had the right and authority to request for Benjamin’s parents to be present when the boy was brought to the station?

Did the five police officers, but more likely the team leader, indicated to the principal either in words, body language, gestures, signals that he was not to interfere with police business and that Benjamin was to follow them to the station at the time of the police’s choosing?

It can be argued that NVSS even exceeded its “obligation to the police”, perhaps unconsciously. How? The police’s job was considerably eased through the school’s many acts of commission and omission. it was probably fear and the school’s eagerness to be seen to be cooperative that Benjamin was disallowed to eat his bun while on the way to the principal’s office, even though it was the school’s recess. For most parents, it would be unthinkable for a vulnerable, hungry minor to be sent to the police station unaccompanied by either his adult family member or the school’s. But that was what NVSS did!

The failure of the school to maintain contact with the police during Benjamin’s incarceration and with his parents after his release from police custody is illustrative of the school’s unconcern. Frantic and repeated calls by Benjamin’s parents to the principal after his death went unanswered until the next day.

The school’s unilateral action to disallow Benjamin to attend the pre-arranged school camp which he looked forward to attending was insensitive, arrogant and inexplicable.

Neither Benjamin nor his parents were consulted. The school’s explanation that it was better for Benjamin to spend time with his parents instead of going to the school camp after his experience with the police does not wash. Was this the tipping point that led Benjamin to leap from his room?

The school’s unilateral action to disallow Benjamin to attend the pre-arranged school camp which he looked forward to attending was insensitive, arrogant and inexplicable. Neither Benjamin nor his parents were consulted. The school’s explanation that it was better for Benjamin to spend time with his parents instead of going to the school camp after his experience with the police does not wash. Was this the tipping point that led Benjamin to leap from his room?

NVSS has to be held accountable for failing in its duty. The Ministry of Education has to realise all is not well in Singapore’s school, particularly the school’s cowed attitude whenever police officers turn up on their doorstep. No other young child should ever have to face what Benjamin went through.

The police: its vague protocols and default system of extracting confessions with threats and overwhelming force must change.

The police, in a statement on 31 Jan 16, reported Benjamin “cooperated fully with the police”. Read this as Benjamin “cooperated fully with the police…’out of fear’”. Posit the police statement with Benjamin’s parent’s report that their son ‘denied” he had committed the offence. Again, posit this against Benjamin’s haunting last words: “They said I am guilty, so I am guilty lor.”

The police are well-known for its expertise in extracting confessions, some of which turned out to be incorrect. See the recent case of the man with dementia signing a confession for a series of theft which was later proven false (read here).

By no stretch of the imagination can anyone see 14 years old Benjamin as a violent, hardened criminal. He does not deserve to have the whole arsenal of brutal police tactics applied to extract his cooperation. To begin with, Benjamin had already been softened by his school who appears to have bent backwards to cooperate with the police. Ang Mo Kio Police has to explain to Benjamin’s parents and all parents in Singapore the following: why send 5 T-shirted officers to arrest Benjamin when 1 or 2 would be more than adequate to do the job?

Was it humane to deprive young Benjamin of food and drinks during the lengthy interrogation in an unduly cold air-conditioned open office where Benjamin’s as yet unproven allegations of “outrage of modesty” must have been overheard by all and sundry in that office? Wasn’t the police aware that the minor only had a cold bun from the time he went to school until they finished with him at 2.50pm? Was it any wonder that Benjamin’s mother reported that her son’s hands were “unduly cold” when he was released to her?

Benjamin’s young life had been untimely snuffed out. There should be an enquiry into the incident to determine the level of accountability of the police and his school, so that no other parents with school-going children in Singapore should ever have to hear Benjamin’s haunting last words “They said I am guilty, so I am guilty lor”

sadfa

12-02-2016, 03:20 AM

These articles pointed out something very odd.

Shanmugam got a habit of running his mouth in many things. Why stop suddenly?

The more he n his buddies keep quiet, the more disturbing it is n reflects very poorly on them n their abilities.

Summerhillt

12-02-2016, 03:34 AM

Hope Benjamin finds a better place.. One death on the books, hope it is not wasted. Legal procedures when arresting kids can be changed..

sadfa

12-02-2016, 03:40 AM

Hope Benjamin finds a better place.. One death on the books, hope it is not wasted. Legal procedures when arresting kids can be changed..

Sure wasted one la

Theyre hoping sporeans will just forget.
Like how they forget everything n the cb press will do its best to downplay it.

If cannot forget, they'll say let's move on. And
NOTHING will change.
They'll continue to tekan kids n old folks in interrogation.

ComplainKing

12-02-2016, 10:34 AM

When something goes wrong they will usually keep it quiet or play taiji . Where would someone dare to admit it is their fault ? Sad very sad .

express175

13-02-2016, 08:19 PM

SQ2600

14-02-2016, 02:04 AM

My question is why do the police assume he is guilty in the first place ? They could have done it discreetly by going to his house etc instead of embarassing and humiliating the 14yr old boy. Why is the law so unfair to guys ?...choosing to believe he is guilty even before investigations are over and treating him like a criminal ?

That's the way the legal system operates here in Singapore. Normally in most criminal cases the suspect is presumed innocent until proven guilty except for Sexual Offences cases it is the other way whereby the accused is presumed to be guilty and the onus is on him to prove his innocence. Blame the damned Women's Charter which protects the accuser even if the accusation is false or malicious nature.

I know of many guys who were accused of molest by "victims" while clubbing in local joints. We all know these are false accusations as the "victims" were always willing to drop the case upon payment of a sum of money to settle the case. Better returns than doing FL in the clubs.

sadfa

14-02-2016, 02:42 AM

kuasimi

14-02-2016, 02:44 AM

13-year-old boy locked up in detention cell with other offenders for alleged molest

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/13-year-old-boy-locked-up-in-detention-cell-with-other-offenders-for-alleged-molest/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

By onlinecitizen on February 13, 2016 Letters

The below is a letter sent to TOC for publication. The name of the parent is withheld for privacy of the minor.

After reading the letter from Benjamin Lim’s family on citizen online. I totally understand how they felt and would like to share my story to let Benjamin Lim’s parents know that I admire their strength and courage to speak up.

I’m really sorry that they had to lose a son, in order to have authorities listen to what they had to say.

On 26 February 2014, I had a similar incident happen to me.

At 2.23pm, I received a call on my mobile from my son’s school discipline master informing me that they will be calling the police. They informed me that it was due to an alleged outrage of modesty of a female teacher. I asked the discipline master if it could wait till I got to the school before they did that, and his reply was that they had no control of what the teacher wanted to do which was to call the police.

Later on, when I had a chance to speak to the principal and the discipline master, I asked for an explanation of this, I was told that as the principal of the school it was his job to protect his staff – the teacher. If the job of the school principal, is to protect his adult staff, who protects the 13-year-old child?

At 2.50pm I arrived at the school’s general office and requested to see my son, the Discipline Master came to bring me to a room where my son was. He was being questioned by a police officer and with another police officer taking the statement and three other police officers outside. Unlike Benjamin’s incident, these police officers were all in uniforms and the police cars were marked.

Upon entering the room, I saw my son with his head resting on his arm on the table crying. The amount of tissues next to him showed that he must have been crying quite a bit.

I was told that they were done taking my son’s statement and got him to sign for it in my absence.

If you were a 13-year-old and there were 5-6 police officers present, would you not be afraid and would have admitted to whatever the officers had suggested to you? (especially, when you had no one there to support you?) As an adult, I would be frightened and extremely intimidated let alone a 13-year-old. Why would one require this amount of police officers to pick up a 13-year-old boy from his school in two police cars?

To shorten the story, my son was brought to the police station in the police car handcuffed. ( I had to beg the Investigating officer not to handcuffed him in the school, only when they got into the police car.) After many requests, I was finally allowed to post bail for my son at about 10 pm!! All this while, he was sitting with other offenders in the same cell even though he was only 13 years of age.

These are the facts* that led to the above incident which I managed to find out from my son when we finally made it home.

1.My son was in the school canteen just after school hours at 1.50pm, rushing to buy lunch; he has a history of gastric and thus try to eat as soon as he has the opportunity before he starts to get gastric pains. As there was no queue, in front of the drinks stall, many students were jostling to get to the front to buy their drinks. There was some manoeuvring, slight pushing and shoving, as in any typical canteen scene after school at lunch time, particularly in an all-boys school.

2.As he was jostling his way forward, the said teacher, was walking past (on his right side and just within an arm’s length). At the point, his hand having swung outwards due to the jostling brushed her buttocks accidentally with the back of his hand, because he was holding his wallet in the hand. She turned around and asked him “Do you know what you have done?”

3.My son immediately apologised to the teacher explaining that it was accidental. However, the teacher said, “Even if you are sorry, it is an arrest-able offence, and sorry cannot make up for it.” She then informed him that she was going to report this to his Form Teacher, who subsequently arrived and escorted him to the Discipline Master’s office. Before long, the police arrived, questioned him and arrested my son.

4.When asked why he had confessed to the statement he made, he said it was the manner it was suggested to him, and he didn’t have a choice.

5.Subsequently, My son was given a warning letter for the offence he confessed to. This is after a few months of having to go to the police station to post bail.

Children have to be protected because they have no formal rights

1.Schools need to captain young lives and not put them in jeopardy

2.Schools should not protect staff above pupils, but to treat both fairly.

3.The child will clearly be traumatized socially, and there is bound to be a lot of rebound in terms of re-socializing him. (We had to have a 14-year-old boy’s death to prove this point)

4.There was no proper disciplinary evaluation of both teacher and student before the case was taken to the police?

5.The school did nothing to champion the situation and I think this is something that our education system is unaware of and has no idea how to handle given the climate today where we live in a world of cyber bullying etc.

6.I had written into Ministry of Education (MOE) to seek answers, only to have MOE ask me to give the principal of my son’s school a call. (My son had by that time moved to another school.) It is extremely frustrating to try to explain to a 13-year-old boy, that even though he had done something accidently, by mistake he was not given a chance to be proven innocent, no benefit of a doubt. He lost all his childhood friends in the process of his moving school.

I’m very thankful that with support and conversations with my son he has not taken it as hard as Benjamin Lim. Whether this incident has any long-term repercussions on his relationships in the future is yet to be seen.

Yours truthfully,
A concerned parent

*note – It would be proper to say that’s the account of the son on what transpired instead of being facts of the case.

sadfa

14-02-2016, 02:52 AM

[SIZE="4"][B]13-year-old boy locked up in detention cell with other offenders for alleged molest nlinecitizen/[/url]

By onlinecitizen on February 13, 2016 Letters

The below is a letter sent to TOC for publication. The name of the parent is withheld for privacy of the minor.

After reading the letter from Benjamin Lim’s family on citizen online. I totally understand how they felt and would like to share my story to let Benjamin Lim’s parents know that I admire their strength and courage to speak up.

I’m really sorry that they had to lose a son, in order to have authorities listen to what they had to say.

On 26 February 2014, I had a similar incident happen to me.

At 2.23pm, I received a call on my mobile from my son’s school discipline master informing me that they will be calling the police. They informed me that it was due to an alleged outrage of modesty of a female teacher. I asked the discipline master if it could wait till I got to the school before they did that, and his reply was that they had no control of what the teacher wanted to do which was to call the police.

Later on, when I had a chance to speak to the principal and the discipline master, I asked for an explanation of this, I was told that as the principal of the school it was his job to protect his staff – the teacher. If the job of the school principal, is to protect his adult staff, who protects the 13-year-old child?

At 2.50pm I arrived at the school’s general office and requested to see my son, the Discipline Master came to bring me to a room where my son was. He was being questioned by a police officer and with another police officer taking the statement and three other police officers outside. Unlike Benjamin’s incident, these police officers were all in uniforms and the police cars were marked.

Upon entering the room, I saw my son with his head resting on his arm on the table crying. The amount of tissues next to him showed that he must have been crying quite a bit.

I was told that they were done taking my son’s statement and got him to sign for it in my absence.

If you were a 13-year-old and there were 5-6 police officers present, would you not be afraid and would have admitted to whatever the officers had suggested to you? (especially, when you had no one there to support you?) As an adult, I would be frightened and extremely intimidated let alone a 13-year-old. Why would one require this amount of police officers to pick up a 13-year-old boy from his school in two police cars?

To shorten the story, my son was brought to the police station in the police car handcuffed. ( I had to beg the Investigating officer not to handcuffed him in the school, only when they got into the police car.) After many requests, I was finally allowed to post bail for my son at about 10 pm!! All this while, he was sitting with other offenders in the same cell even though he was only 13 years of age.

These are the facts* that led to the above incident which I managed to find out from my son when we finally made it home.

1.My son was in the school canteen just after school hours at 1.50pm, rushing to buy lunch; he has a history of gastric and thus try to eat as soon as he has the opportunity before he starts to get gastric pains. As there was no queue, in front of the drinks stall, many students were jostling to get to the front to buy their drinks. There was some manoeuvring, slight pushing and shoving, as in any typical canteen scene after school at lunch time, particularly in an all-boys school.

2.As he was jostling his way forward, the said teacher, was walking past (on his right side and just within an arm’s length). At the point, his hand having swung outwards due to the jostling brushed her buttocks accidentally with the back of his hand, because he was holding his wallet in the hand. She turned around and asked him “Do you know what you have done?”

3.My son immediately apologised to the teacher explaining that it was accidental. However, the teacher said, “Even if you are sorry, it is an arrest-able offence, and sorry cannot make up for it.” She then informed him that she was going to report this to his Form Teacher, who subsequently arrived and escorted him to the Discipline Master’s office. Before long, the police arrived, questioned him and arrested my son.

4.When asked why he had confessed to the statement he made, he said it was the manner it was suggested to him, and he didn’t have a choice.

5.Subsequently, My son was given a warning letter for the offence he confessed to. This is after a few months of having to go to the police station to post bail.

Children have to be protected because they have no formal rights
1.Schools need to captain young lives and not put them in jeopardy

2.Schools should not protect staff above pupils, but to treat both fairly.

3.The child will clearly be traumatized socially, and there is bound to be a lot of rebound in terms of re-socializing him. (We had to have a 14-year-old boy’s death to prove this point)

4.There was no proper disciplinary evaluation of both teacher and student before the case was taken to the police?

5.The school did nothing to champion the situation and I think this is something that our education system is unaware of and has no idea how to handle given the climate today where we live in a world of cyber bullying etc.

6.I had written into Ministry of Education (MOE) to seek answers, only to have MOE ask me to give the principal of my son’s school a call. (My son had by that time moved to another school.) It is extremely frustrating to try to explain to a 13-year-old boy, that even though he had done something accidently, by mistake he was not given a chance to be proven innocent, no benefit of a doubt. He lost all his childhood friends in the process of his moving school.

I’m very thankful that with support and conversations with my son he has not taken it as hard as Benjamin Lim. Whether this incident has any long-term repercussions on his relationships in the future is yet to be seen.

Yours truthfully,
A concerned parent

*note – It would be proper to say that’s the account of the son on what transpired instead of being facts of the case.

Knn what you doing back here?
You stir up so much shit, you're going to b banned Haha

curry_mutu_man

14-02-2016, 07:32 AM

My question is why do the police assume he is guilty in the first place ? They could have done it discreetly by going to his house etc instead of embarassing and humiliating the 14yr old boy. Why is the law so unfair to guys ?...choosing to believe he is guilty even before investigations are over and treating him like a criminal ?

and also my question to you is why do you want to create clone(S) to brain wash Singaporean to vote against our hardworking govt ??? :mad:

our strong Sing currency will drop and our beautiful well organized country will be in chaos if our hardworking honest govt is toppled by unscrupulous unethical irresponsible and dishonest opposition parties and the foreign media like you guys always making false accusation(S) against our honest govt !!!

the most horrendous thing is poison internet pests like you all lurking at all forum(S) and PRIVATE social media 24/7 365 days telling lie and poisoning the mind of Singaporean(S) to vote against our honest govt !!! :mad:

my dear fellow Singaporeans, the foreign media and the dishonest opposition parties are out to destroy our stable country, please beware !!!

curry_mutu_man

14-02-2016, 07:33 AM

13-year-old boy locked up in detention cell with other offenders for alleged molest

By onlinecitizen on February 13, 2016 Letters

The below is a letter sent to TOC for publication. The name of the parent is withheld for privacy of the minor.

and also my question to you is why do you want to create clone(S) to brain wash Singaporean to vote against our hardworking govt ??? :mad:

our strong Sing currency will drop and our beautiful well organized country will be in chaos if our hardworking honest govt is toppled by unscrupulous unethical irresponsible and dishonest opposition parties and the foreign media like you guys always making false accusation(S) against our honest govt !!!

the most horrendous thing is poison internet pests like you all lurking at all forum(S) and PRIVATE social media 24/7 365 days telling lie and poisoning the mind of Singaporean(S) to vote against our honest govt !!! :mad:

my dear fellow Singaporeans, the foreign media and the dishonest opposition parties are out to destroy our stable country, please beware !!!

curry_mutu_man

14-02-2016, 07:38 AM

13-year-old boy locked up in detention cell with other offenders for alleged molest

eh clone king, you not tired of writing and posting I also tired of reading :mad:

are you a fugitive ??? :confused:

if not then what is your ulterior motive ??? :mad:

kuasimi

20-02-2016, 01:40 AM

Dr Ang Yong Guan on Benjamin Lim’s death: In a genuinely democratic society his death would be be hotly debated

By The Independent - February 18, 2016

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

http://theindependent.sg/dr-ang-yong-guan-on-benjamin-lims-death-in-a-genuinely-democratic-society-his-death-would-be-be-hotly-debated/

http://theindependent.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ayg.jpg

By: Dr Ang Yong Guan

Reflection on 14 year old Benjamin Lim who committed suicide on 26 January 2016 after he was arrested by 5 plainclothes policemen and interrogated for 3 hours: Policemen, like soldiers, take orders from their ground officers.

These ground leaders must have the right values like empathy and compassion whilst exercising authority at the same time. Exercising authority in an appropriate dose (not 100-0, or 99-1, etc, but say 51-49). How to do it?

Just visualise this: if Benjamin Lim were my son or brother or close friend, would I want 5 plainclothes policemen to go to his school? Would I interrogate him for 3 hours and regard this outraging of modesty of a 11 year old girl equal to that of a rape, a robbery or a murder?

Would I adopt a 100-0, top down approach or will I apply a 51-49 relationship where I am still in control (51) and exert authority with Benjamin (at 49 position) cooperating with me comfortably.

Have we been habitually taking cues from the top echelon in society (who are so used to adopt a 100-0, or 90-10 or even 80-20 approach) that we have forgotten about a more appropriate, humane, compassionate 51-49 approach?

Let us strive towards a more graceful society where relationship is more 51-49 or 50-50 (in the case of some equal relationship) than 100-0 or 99-1?

Finally, in another perhaps more genuinely democratic society, this topic will be hotly debated publicly over television, radio and newspaper so that lessons can quickly be learnt to prevent another such incident from happening.

—
Republished from Dr Ang Yong Guan’s Facebook page ‘Simplifying Psychiatry‘.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=552172031627506&id=134080070103373

kuasimi

20-02-2016, 01:42 AM

Death of 14-year-old after police interrogation prompts Law Society to study investigation protocols for young suspects

By The Independent - February 16, 2016

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG

http://theindependent.sg/death-of-14-year-old-after-police-interrogation-prompts-law-society-to-study-investigation-protocols-for-young-suspects/

http://theindependent.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ben.jpg

The case of the 14-year-old boy who committed suicide after police interrogation has prompted the Law Society of Singapore to set-up a special committee to look at investigation protocols for young suspects.

Mr Wendell Wong, Director of Dispute Resolution of the law firm Drew & Napier and co-chairman of Law Society’s criminal law practice committee, chairs the special committee. The special committee will engage the Ministry of Home Affairs and Attorney- General’s Chambers.

“The recent tragic case of 14-year-old Benjamin has highlighted the issue of investigation protocols, especially in the case of young offenders or suspects,” Mr Wong said.

Others in the 10-men committee include lawyers Amolat Singh, Suresh Damodara, Satwant Singh, Peter Ong and associate law professor Chan Wing Cheong.

The Appropriate Adult scheme should be extended to minors under 16 years of age said Mr Peter Ong.

The Committee which has not met yet, has to wait for the Coroner’s Inquiry to establish the facts of the case. But “there is a lot of public interest and a lot of disquiet in this case,” said Mr Amolat Singh.

kuasimi

20-02-2016, 01:46 AM

Hedging in Wonderland: The politics of persuading the PAP

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/hedging-in-wonderland-the-politics-of-persuading-the-pap/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

BY CARLTON TAN ON FEBRUARY 18, 2016 COMMENTARIES

Thio Shen Yi’s write-up in the law gazette contains so much hedging, I almost thought I was Carlton in Wonderland for a moment. Still, he’s not wrong. For a small country our government is one slow (to put it nicely) creature.

Overplay your hand and you get ignored. Play nice and maybe you’ll get something done. Play too nice and you get something useless done. (And in rare cases, be too much of a nuisance and you end up like Francis Seow.)

In TOC’s report, I left out the bits where he hedges his position (or in other words, makes exceptions and clarifications to nuance his position) because, let’s be honest, who really cares for that? Nonetheless, it’s quite telling.

He avoids saying the right to immediate counsel is a constitutional right which is certainly wise because that argument would never fly; our Supreme Court judges are a bit like Antonin Scalia–adverse to judicial activism. In any case, Singapore doesn’t have the same kind of hallowed tradition of revering the constitution that America does. Ours was hastily pieced together with all the bits Lee Kuan Yew liked in 1965. And with a gazillion amendments between then and now, ours is one of the most tortured constitutions ever. So no, the constitutional route is not the way to go.

He also avoids getting dragged into a debate over the successes and failures of the criminal justice systems in the four countries he raises. This may be because it’s hard to prove this case either way, or because evidence of the abundance or absence of wrongful convictions in Singapore is just sorely lacking. Really, how do you tell if someone is wrongfully convicted unless the conviction is overturned? And if convictions are never overturned because, well, even coerced statements are admissible, what then? So no, relying entirely on comparisons with other countries is not the card to play either.

And of course, there’s the part where he settles for early instead of immediate access to counsel. I guess you take what you can get. So instead of 48 hours alone with the police, maybe the suspect only has to spend a few. Better make sure the police inform him of his right to counsel though.

Finally, there’s that oblique call to action at the end which appears to be directed to the Bar but which, I think, is really a message to the government. It’s quite clever actually. The true scholar-gentleman is always politically correct and adept at the art of face-saving.

The entire piece is a condemnation of the current criminal justice system, yet at the end, he says we need to restore trust in the system, and he says it isn’t perfect but it’s largely fair and transparent and generates just outcomes.

Yup, who have I heard this from before? Sounds like the PAP, no? It’s always about the system. Always about generating something (Singapore’s a machine, didn’t you know?). And always about fairness (hooray for meritocracy).

That’s precisely why it has to be an oblique reference. One that reminds them of what they believe in and sets them straight without putting them on the defensive.

But maybe all that is just nonsensical speculation. Whatever the case, Thio Shen Yi is certainly right about one thing. It’s time to fast forward the discussion and reboot our thinking. We’ve been stuck rehashing the same old arguments about the need to allow the police to investigate without being hampered by lawyers. As Mr Thio pointed out, and as countless other papers have, that argument is (to put it nicely) unsound.

Not everything that smells of liberalism is bad. Forget about the scenes in American TV legal dramas where some judge yells something about fruits from a poisonous tree and throws out all the evidence because someone wasn’t read his rights. That’s not Thio’s proposal here. His is for us to consider how other countries have done it and ask if we can strike a better balance. I think we can. Benjamin probably would too. Alas, he no longer has a say. Or does he?

kuasimi

20-02-2016, 01:49 AM

Review on system not just about Benjamin’s death: Law Society’s president

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/review-on-system-not-just-about-benjamins-death-law-societys-president/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

BY CARLTON TAN ON FEBRUARY 17, 2016 LEGISLATION

In the February issue of the Singapore Law Gazette, the Law Society’s president, Thio Shen Yi argued for better protection of suspects, especially minors, by granting them early access to counsel.

Benjamin Lim is a 14-year-old boy who jumped to his death following a two-hour police interview. His mother’s request to be present during the interview was denied.

Explaining why her request was denied, Mr Thio wrote:

The simple answer is that there is no legal requirement for parents to be present in the interview room when a minor is involved.

The reason for this as explained by Mr Lionel de Souza, ambassador for the National Crime Prevention Council is because: “A police investigation is about searching for the truth. Having a parent in the same room with the accused would hamper this search, because they will not be neutral parties”.

This belief that the police’s investigation will be hampered by the presence of lawyers is also the reason why the law does not grant suspects the right of immediate access to counsel.

Thio argues that this is especially problematic for children because they are more easily terrified than adults and because “a stressful interrogation can extract what the interrogator is looking for, which may, or may not, be the truth.”

“There are plenty of empirical psychological studies that strongly suggest that people of sound mind and temperament can be made to confess to something that they didn’t do,” he adds.

Acknowledging that there is a need to balance police effectiveness and protection for the accused, Thio points out that “this incident forces us to contemplate the potentially catastrophic cost of getting the balance wrong.”

His position is that suspects should be granted near immediate or at worst, early access to counsel. Responding to the argument that access to lawyers may hamper police investigations, Mr Thio argues:

It cannot be the case that our well-trained, well-resourced, first world police force will be stymied in their investigations by something as anodyne as the presence of parents or lawyers. Perhaps the time is right to fast forward this discussion and reboot our thinking.

Mr Thio cites four nearby countries to show that it is possible to protect suspects while still allowing the police to do their work effectively. In Malaysia, Hong Kong, India and Taiwan, suspects are allowed to consult a lawyer before or during his interrogation. However, reasonable limits may be imposed, such as in India where the lawyer may not be present throughout the entire interrogation.

Asking that Singapore learn from the experience of other legal jurisdictions, Mr Thio reiterates that early access to counsel creates a justice system where we can “safely rely on the fairness of the convictions and acquittals.” This, he believes, “is a necessity in ensuring sustainable confidence in our criminal justice system.”

Is it fair to the arrested person or suspect if they can only talk to a lawyer days (or a couple of weeks) after the investigation? Intimidation, coercion or psychological manipulation can come in many forms, is often subtle, and may even be unintentional. In the context of an investigation by the police, which is inherently stressful, surely every suspect is vulnerable? The precise level of vulnerability is just a matter of degree. This must ultimately devalue the reliability of the statements (let alone confessions) given under those circumstances. The trial should not start, and for all intents and purposes end, at the police station.

In addition, Thio asks if the investigative process may “unintentionally cause avoidable psychological trauma and long-term distress.”

“If Benjamin’s death was avoidable with a better system in place, then it is one death too many. But it is not just about Benjamin,” he said.

Thio concluded by making an appeal to fellow lawyers:

The role of the Bar, as stakeholders in the Criminal Justice System, is to give our clients, and victims, a sense of confidence, to tell them that they can trust the system, it is not perfect, but it is largely fair and transparent, and is ultimately aimed at generating just outcomes. Can we at the Bar genuinely say that yet? We can do better. We must do better. And we should do it together.

On 22 January, days before Benjamin’s death, Law Minister K Shanmugam said that the Ministry of Law was looking into substantive reforms in civil and criminal law.

On 1 February, The Singapore Police Force announced that it would conduct a review of its procedures when interviewing a minor. There have been no updates yet.

AC_Milan

20-02-2016, 05:16 AM

In addition, Thio asks if the investigative process may “unintentionally cause avoidable psychological trauma and long-term distress.”

“If Benjamin’s death was avoidable with a better system in place, then it is one death too many. But it is not just about Benjamin,” he said.

Likewise i don't trust clone(S) like you, the fugitives, the no substance opposition parties, the disgruntled individual and the foreign media :mad: (good at stirring shit in order to boost readership at the expense of our country)

Pls stop destroying my country, stop making false accusation against our govt, stop spreading untrue rumours, stop tarnishing our govt's image to the outside world via Youtube, Facebooks, private shitty blogs, chatrooms etc........

pls stop lurking at all internet forums 24/7 365 days fabricating stories, destroying Singaporean values and cohesiveness, split our community and create hatred among Singaporean, brain washing Singaporean to vote against our govt and trying to destroy our country thus causing our currency to depreciate !!! :mad:

Fellow Singaporean pls B E W A R E !!!

Pls help to spread this P O W E R F U L message around !!! ;)

kuasimi

24-02-2016, 12:09 AM

Questions about Benjamin Lim’s case, Home Affairs Minister and SPF cannot answer

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/02/questions-about-benjamin-lims-case-home-affairs-minister-and-spf-cannot-answer/

https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/

BY ONLINECITIZEN ON FEBRUARY 23, 2016 SOCIAL JUSTICE

On 26 January, fourteen-year-old Benjamin Lim Jun Hui was found dead at the base of a HDB flat where he lived. Prior to that, five plainclothes police officers showed up at Benjamin’s school on Tuesday morning and took him away for questioning for allegedly outraging the modesty of an 11-year-old girl. Benjamin’s mother was denied access to him for the whole duration of police interview. (read more)

In its attempt to learn more about the incident, The Online Citizen (TOC) wrote to the police on 29 January to seek response on the incident. Receipents include commander and deputy commander, AC Lian Ghim Hua and DAC Chong Zunjie. TOC did not receive any reply from the police.

On 30 January, another query was made again to the police, this time with the Police Commissioner being copied in the mail. But alas, no reply from the police again.

On 5th February, the same query was sent to the different agencies and police commissioner, along with the question of the police’s statement about the plain clothes police officers. (read more). Still, the police remained silent on the issue till today.

On the same day, TOC also wrote to Minister of Home Affairs, K Shanmugam about Benjamin’s case and asked if he had anything to comment or to help with the questions that the police have refused to answer. Similar to the police, Mr K Shanmugam has not given a reply since the mail was sent. Mr K Shanmugam is also the Minister of Law.

What are the questions that the Singapore Police Force and Minister of Home Affairs so unwilling to reply? See below if you’re interested to know.

1) Was the offense deemed urgent enough not to schedule an interview with the boy in question along with his guardian with the police?

2) Was it standard police protocol to visit schools for suspects who are students?

3) Given that it has not been judged that the boy was guilty of his offence, does the police feel that the arrest of the boy could create unreversible damage to his reputation and image?

4) TOC understands that the boy was interviewed by the police without the presence of his guardian, and the mother was denied access to the boy until the investigation is over.

Singapore acceded to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC) on 2 October 1995 and under section 2(b) of article 40 of CRC. Does the police procedure, especially in the mentioned case, follow the points as stated in the CRC?

5) Would the police officer who gave the orders to arrest the boy at the school be named? If not, does the police force take ownership of the orders to carry out the arrest of the boy at school during school hours.
6) Would the police release the details of the investigation into the boy’s death to the public or to his parents?

7) Does the parent of the boy have any means to file a complaint against the actions of the police?

sadfa

24-02-2016, 12:15 AM

Knn you come back only when its zap free zone.

Toc is not real media so of cos they won't reply Lo.
And their questions r as bad as yr posts.

Benjamins family together with garbagements mp met the police. I bet a lot of bad things said bout Benjamin that's why his family kept quiet.

kuasimi

24-02-2016, 12:21 AM

Knn you come back only when its zap free zone.

Toc is not real media so of cos they won't reply Lo.
And their questions r as bad as yr posts.

It is not zap free zone anymore.

It is still better than remaining silent, sweeping under carpet and not caring at all which does not look good on the Police and Minister.

At least TOC is doing something within their limited means.

You showed passion for this topic but what else have you done so far?

I am sure Minister and Police would have responded if election results were more competitive and their jobs remain on the line.

ComplainKing

24-02-2016, 10:31 AM

How to ownself check ownself ?

sex crusader

24-02-2016, 03:14 PM

It is not zap free zone anymore.

It is still better than remaining silent, sweeping under carpet and not caring at all which does not look good on the Police and Minister.

At least TOC is doing something within their limited means.

You showed passion for this topic but what else have you done so far?

I am sure Minister and Police would have responded if election results were more competitive and their jobs remain on the line.

Didn't you read that this section should be politics free?:rolleyes:

kuasimi

25-02-2016, 02:17 AM

Didn't you read that this section should be politics free?:rolleyes:

This is current affairs, not politics else CNA and ST will be reporting about politics everyday?

Besides, the way you put it make it sound politics is more taboo than sex, prostitutes and pornography. The wonder AMDKs like to laugh at Singaporeans for being illogical.:rolleyes:

kuasimi

25-02-2016, 02:23 AM

http://www.inconvenientquestions.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/benjamin_01.jpg

Articles / February 22, 2016
Justice in Criminal Investigations
by Sujatha Selvakumar

http://www.inconvenientquestions.sg/justice-in-criminal-investigations/

https://www.facebook.com/inconvenientquestions/

The suicide of 14-year-old Benjamin Lim, who was interrogated by the police unaccompanied by an adult, raises questions about individual rights and police procedures. In the Singapore system, the police is not obliged to inform suspects of their rights, and there are features that make the process unfavourable towards suspects. A better balance needs to be struck between efficiency and individual rights, especially when it comes to youthful suspects.

Criminal Investigations are daunting for anyone, and even more so for young persons. The unaccompanied police interrogations of 14-year-old Benjamin Lim, and his decision shortly thereafter to jump to his death, fills me with disquiet.

Much has been written about the treating of a young person like an adult and submitting him to interrogations unaccompanied. There have been several calls for authorities to justify their actions in an attempt to vindicate Benjamin Lim’s death, and some of it seems politically-motivated.

The incident has brought to the forefront the precarious balance between the rights of individuals and the ability of the police to carry out investigations effectively to maintain public safety, as well as much deeper questions about our rights as citizens.

Article 9(3) of the Constitution states that a suspect, when arrested, shall be informed as soon as may be, of the grounds of his arrest and shall be allowed to consult and be defended by a legal practitioner of his choice.

The difficulty arises when suspects are not informed of their constitutional rights by the police. In the US, UK and several European countries, a positive obligation is placed on the police to inform suspects of their rights before interrogations begin. Failure to do so could mean any statement taken by the police during the interrogations will be disregarded during trial.

In Singapore, there is no obligation on the part of the police to inform the suspect or witness of their rights, particularly that against self-incrimination. Even an innocent person who is kept ignorant and uninformed of his rights is unlikely to claim them. While we now have the Pamphlet of Rights, what use is it if it cannot be placed before every suspect at the lock up and is instead sitting pretty in the station canteen?

http://www.inconvenientquestions.sg/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/benjamin_02.jpg

Are Singapore’s children adequately protected during police investigations?

This is further compounded by the fact that in the Singapore system, the suspect ought to state his defence during the course of the investigations. Failure to do so could mean an adverse inference is drawn against the suspect in Court.

To make matters even more challenging for the suspect, the right to counsel is not immediate but can be withheld within a reasonable time frame. This feature is quite unique to Singapore. In most countries, access to counsel is immediate; or, alternatively, a middle ground is reached permitting some communication and consultation.

The practical application of the term “reasonable” is fraught with ambiguity—there is inherent elasticity in the idea. It also means that, before interrogations begin, the counsel is unable to advise the suspect to tell the truth, to articulate any defences they may have, to co-operate with the police, or to advise against self-incrimination and also advise if no defence is available. This often leaves the suspect, regardless of his age, emotionally and psychologically vulnerable.

These practical issues, coupled with the vulnerability of youth, gave rise to the unfortunate case of Benjamin—a life lost too soon.

We must move away from the inherent sense that a suspect’s exercise of his rights may in some manner impede police investigations. Due process must mean that procedures are filled with “hindrances” that serve the interest of justice and protect the innocent.

We should not merely pay lip service to the notion of “innocent until proven guilty”. As seen above, the nuances are in the application of the principle by the police, the Attorney General’s Chambers and at Court.

The Witness Support Program is made available to children below the age of 18 who give evidence at criminal trials. This is a precedent that clearly acknowledges that young people are vulnerable, and it is equally available to all young persons regardless of their role as witness or suspect. Similar treatment should be extended to young people at police stations. The trial should not begin in the police station.

Much like the balance scales held by the Greek goddess of justice, Themis, there is a precarious balance, and we must constantly be willing to tweak due processes in the interest of justice.

Constitutional changes will not be possible overnight as it requires more debate and consideration. This does not, however, preclude civil society from lending its voice to the many proposals and constructive solutions that can be considered and lobbied for. An example is the proposal by the criminal practice committee of the Law Society of Singapore that a suspect be allowed to consult a lawyer privately for up to one hour before statements are recorded by the police.

More urgently, we should consider expanding the Appropriate Adult Scheme, which is intended to protect vulnerable accused, and is thus far used only for persons with intellectual or mental disability. MOE could assist by having all its school counsellors trained as Appropriate Adults who can thus be the neutral person needed for investigations while also acting as a familiar person as the child undergoes criminal investigations.

Schools can also do more by participating in Project Schools, an initiative by The Law Society of Singapore. The initiative aims to engage, enable and empower our youth by creating a greater awareness of the law, highlighting their rights and obligations, and informing them of the consequences of juvenile delinquency.

Lastly, video recording of interviews during investigations is to be piloted this year by the SPF. The police should also consider piloting it for young offenders and making it available during criminal discovery, as it will accurately capture proceedings, thus acting as a safeguard of the rights of youthful suspects. At the same time, it would offer protection to officers from any baseless allegations.

As Mahatma Gandhi said, “A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members”. I believe in this matter, we can and must do better.

Top photo: Benjamin Lim’s school, Northview Secondary

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the author’s and do not reflect the opinions or views of IQ or its editorial team.

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About the Author:

Sujatha Selvakumar is a Singapore lawyer. Having graduated from University of Manchester with LL.B (Hons) and LL.M (Corporate Governance), she works as a Senior Associate in a local law firm. She loves to quietly contemplate life over a cup of coffee and passionately believes in access to justice, in eradicating the aspiration gap amongst youth and in empowering women.