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An honorable member of the Coffee Shop Has Just Posted the Following:
http://theaviationist.com/2015/03/05...-sunk-by-subs/ (http://theaviationist.com/2015/03/05/us-aircraft-carrier-sunk-by-subs/)
U.S. aircraft carrier and part of its escort “sunk” by French submarine during drills off Florida
Mar 05 2015 - 56 Comments
By David Cenciotti
If you thought aircraft carriers were invincible you were wrong.
On Mar. 4, the French Ministry of Defense released some interesting details, about the activity conducted by one of its nuclear-powered attack submarine (SNA) in the waters of the North Atlantic Ocean.
According to French MoD website (that is no longer online, even if you can still find a cached version of the article titled “Le SNA Saphir en entraînement avec l’US Navy au large de la Floride”), the Saphir submarine has recently taken part in a major exercise with the U.S. Navy off Florida.
The aim of the exercise was joint training with U.S. Carrier Strike Group 12 made by the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, several Ticonderoga cruisers or Arleigh Burke-class destroyers and a Los Angeles-class submarine, ahead of their operational deployment.
The scenario of the drills saw some imaginary states assaulting American economic and territorial interests; threats faced by a naval force led by USS Theodore Roosevelt.
During the first phase of the exercise, the Saphir was integrated into the friendly force to support anti-submarine warfare (ASW) by cooperating with U.S. P-3C Orion P-8A Poseidon MPA (Maritime Patrol Aircraft): its role was to share all the underwater contacts with the other ASW assets.
In the second phase of the exercise, the Saphir was integrated with the enemy forces and its mission was to locate the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt and its accompanying warships and prepare to attack the strike group.
While the fictious political situation deteriorated, the Saphir quietly slipped in the heart of the multi-billion-dollar aircraft carrier’s defensive screen, while avoiding detection by ASW assets.
On the morning of the last day, the order to attack was finally given, allowing the Saphir to pretend-sinking the USS Theodore Roosevelt and most of its escort.
Although we don’t really know many more details about the attack and its outcome, the scripted exercise its RoE (Rules of Engagement), the simulated sinking of a U.S. supercarrier proves the flattop’s underwater defenses are not impenetrable.
This is the reason why modern subs often train with aircraft carriers: they pose a significant threat to powerful Carrier Strike Groups.
Obviously, this was not the first time a submarine scored a simulated carrier kill with torpedo attacks.
For instance, in 2007 HMCS Corner Brook, a Canadian diesel-electric submarine “sunk” UK’s Illustrious during an exercise in the Atlantic.
Image credit: U.S. Navy
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/10471d1b74f0e12becba450f7d09a678
http://www.news.com.au/world/us-supe...1afab777d91ae4 (http://www.news.com.au/world/us-supercarrier-sunk-by-french-submarine-in-wargames/news-story/f6b4b584359010e6301afab777d91ae4)
US supercarrier ‘sunk’ by French submarine in wargames
March 6, 201510:55am
Unexpected victor ... The 30-year-old French nucler powered attack submarine Saphir. Source: Wikipedia
Jamie SeidelNews Corp Australia Network
Email a friend
WITH a good submarine, a navy can do amazing things. Ask the French. They’ve just managed to “sink” a nuclear-powered US super carrier — and half its battle group.
The French Ministry of Defence has revealed one of its attack submarines pulled of an astounding upset during recent war-games in the North Atlantic.
The Aviationist blog spotted an article on the French defence force’s website — quickly withdrawn — which told how one of their submarines, the “Saphir” tackled the might of the United States’ navy off the coast of Florida.
Formidable force ... The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt with a protecive force of cruisers, destroyers and frigates. A recent exercise saw this expansive, and expensive, defence force bypassed by a French submarine. Source: USN
Formidable force ... The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt with a protecive force of cruisers, destroyers and frigates. A recent exercise saw this expansive, and expensive, defence force bypassed by a French submarine. Source: USNSource:Supplied
At the core of the surface force was the enormous aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt and its powerful strike wing of 90 combat aircraft and helicopters.
Clustered protectively about it was several advanced cruisers and destroyers, and its own guardian submarine.
DONE DEAL? Japan a reluctant ‘favoured’ submarine supplier
In one element of the war games, the Saphir was tasked with the role of being the “bad guy”.
It’s mission: To seek, locate and exterminate the US naval force.
The exact details of how it achieved this embarrassing outcome is not known.
Fallout ... The USS Theodore Roosevelt undergoing shock testing during sea trials in 1987. Source: USN
Fallout ... The USS Theodore Roosevelt undergoing shock testing during sea trials in 1987. Source: USNSource:Supplied
Somehow, the French submarine must have been able to slip between the defensive sensor patchwork of patrol aircraft, helicopters, warships and submarines to line up a shot on the $13 billion monstrosity.
SUB CONTROVERSY: Navy boss sunk by Wikipedia
There she lurked as a fictitious political crisis evolved in the world above.
On the final day of the exercise, the order finaly came.
Sink the Theodore Roosevelt.
This 30-year-old Saphir proceeded to do. Along with most of the escorting warships.
Silent killer ... The French nuclear-powered attack submarine Saphir. Source: Wikipedia
Silent killer ... The French nuclear-powered attack submarine Saphir. Source: WikipediaSource:Supplied
The outcome of such war-games are usually kept a close secret. Not only does a result such as the above have the potential to be politically embarrassing for the losing side, it also exposes the existence of weaknesses any future enemy may exploit.
But rumours abound of similar significant victories by minor nations against the titanic icons of America’s naval might.
Both aircraft carriers and submarines are facing increased scrutiny as to their role in future defence forces.
Both are immensely expensive. Both project immense power.
But their abilities to survive a modern hi-tech battlefield with ever increasing enhancements in sensors and weapons has been called to question in recent years.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...ier-group.html (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/162488/how-a-30_year-old-french-sub-sank-a-us-carrier-group.html)
30-Year Old French Sub Sinks US Carrier Group
(Source: compiled by Defense-Aerospace.com; published April 7, 2015)
PARIS --- The French Ministry of Defence has deleted from its website a news story relating how one of its nuclear-powered attack submarines, Saphir penetrated a US Navy carrier group and fictitiously “sank” the US Navy aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt as well as several of its surface escorts (Ticonderoga-class cruisers and Arleigh Burke-class destroyers).
The deletion was not acknowledged, and simply implemented by replacing the original story by an error page. SAVE FACE FOR US NAVY LAH
The original French navy report on the exercise was posted on March 4, 2015 (above) and deleted shortly afterwards; the link now points to an error page (below). Screen copies made on April 7.
The deletion was noted at the time by several blogs, but has only now come to our attention.
On March 6, the Russian television website RT also reported that “French delete evidence US carrier was 'sunk' by sub in drill” It reported that “A major vulnerability that allowed French submarine to “sink” aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt and most of its escort during drills was apparently revealed by the French Navy and Defense Ministry in blogposts that were quickly wiped out.
“Both the French Defense Ministry and the Navy released and then quickly deleted a news post entitled “Le SNA Saphir en entraînement avec l’US Navy au large de la Floride” (“The SNA Sapphire in training with the US Navy off the coast of Florida”) that praised the 34-year-old French nuclear submarine’s success in “sinking” the American aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt along with best part of its escort.”
The original story, however, was copied by a French defense blog, and is still available here:
This is the relevant paragraph, in French, followed by our translation:
Dans une seconde phase, le Saphir, était intégré aux forces ennemies et avait pour mission de localiser le porte-avions Theodore Roosevelt ainsi que les autres bâtiments de la force navale amie et de se tenir prêt à l’attaque. La situation politique se dégradant de jour en jour, le Saphir s’est glissé discrètement au cœur de l’écran formé par les frégates américaines protégeant le porte-avions, tout en évitant la contre-détection des moyens aériens omniprésents. Au matin du dernier jour, l’ordre de feu était enfin donné, permettant au Saphir de couler fictivement le Theodore Roosevelt et la majeure partie de son escorte.
TRANSLATION:
During the second phase, the Saphir was integrated with “enemy” forces, and its mission as to find the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt as well as the other ships of its task force, and to remain on standby to attack. As the political situation [of the exercise scenario] was worsening from day to day, Saphir covertly entered the screen of American frigates protecting the aircraft carrier, and avoided detection by the pervasive aircraft assets. On the morning of the final day, the firing order finally arrived, allowing Saphir to fictitiously sink the Theodore Roosevelt and the greater part of its escort ships.
It is obviously not to the credit of the US Navy that a 30-year old submarine was able to penetrate one of its carrier groups and to sink both carrier and most of its escort vessels, which not only failed to detect its approach, but also failed to attack it once it made its presence known by sinking the carrier.
In fact, given the claims made by US Navy chiefs about their ships’ effectiveness, and the huge sums invested in carrier groups on the strength of these claims, they deserve to be publicly embarrassed, and to be forced to explain this latest failure.
Because, in fact, this is not the first time a foreign submarine “sinks” a US Navy carrier during an exercise. In 2004, the US Navy leased a Swedish Navy submarine, the Gotland, for one year of dissimilar training, and got more than t bargained for. In fact, as reported by the Foxtrot Alpha blog,
“The Gotland virtually "sank" many US nuclear fast attack subs, destroyers, frigates, cruisers and even made it into the 'red zone' beyond the last ring of anti-submarine defenses within a carrier strike group. Although it was rumored she got many simulated shots off on various US super-carriers, one large-scale training exercise in particular with the then brand new USS Ronald Reagan ended with the little sub making multiple attack runs on the super-carrier, before slithering away without ever being detected.”
Although the French MoD diplomatically tried to limit the embarrassment to the US Navy, the bigger question remains, and is likely to further fuel the legitimate debate in the United States as to the cost and the true effectiveness of US Navy carriers.
These are already threatened by the emergence of Chinese “carrier-killer” missiles as well as more powerful anti-ship missiles, such as the Indian-Russian supersonic BrahMos missile.
-ends-
Click here to view the whole thread at www.sammyboy.com (http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?224026-US-nuke-carrier-and-other-battleships-in-a-war-game-sunk-by-a-30-year-old-Fench-sub&goto=newpost).
http://theaviationist.com/2015/03/05...-sunk-by-subs/ (http://theaviationist.com/2015/03/05/us-aircraft-carrier-sunk-by-subs/)
U.S. aircraft carrier and part of its escort “sunk” by French submarine during drills off Florida
Mar 05 2015 - 56 Comments
By David Cenciotti
If you thought aircraft carriers were invincible you were wrong.
On Mar. 4, the French Ministry of Defense released some interesting details, about the activity conducted by one of its nuclear-powered attack submarine (SNA) in the waters of the North Atlantic Ocean.
According to French MoD website (that is no longer online, even if you can still find a cached version of the article titled “Le SNA Saphir en entraînement avec l’US Navy au large de la Floride”), the Saphir submarine has recently taken part in a major exercise with the U.S. Navy off Florida.
The aim of the exercise was joint training with U.S. Carrier Strike Group 12 made by the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, several Ticonderoga cruisers or Arleigh Burke-class destroyers and a Los Angeles-class submarine, ahead of their operational deployment.
The scenario of the drills saw some imaginary states assaulting American economic and territorial interests; threats faced by a naval force led by USS Theodore Roosevelt.
During the first phase of the exercise, the Saphir was integrated into the friendly force to support anti-submarine warfare (ASW) by cooperating with U.S. P-3C Orion P-8A Poseidon MPA (Maritime Patrol Aircraft): its role was to share all the underwater contacts with the other ASW assets.
In the second phase of the exercise, the Saphir was integrated with the enemy forces and its mission was to locate the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt and its accompanying warships and prepare to attack the strike group.
While the fictious political situation deteriorated, the Saphir quietly slipped in the heart of the multi-billion-dollar aircraft carrier’s defensive screen, while avoiding detection by ASW assets.
On the morning of the last day, the order to attack was finally given, allowing the Saphir to pretend-sinking the USS Theodore Roosevelt and most of its escort.
Although we don’t really know many more details about the attack and its outcome, the scripted exercise its RoE (Rules of Engagement), the simulated sinking of a U.S. supercarrier proves the flattop’s underwater defenses are not impenetrable.
This is the reason why modern subs often train with aircraft carriers: they pose a significant threat to powerful Carrier Strike Groups.
Obviously, this was not the first time a submarine scored a simulated carrier kill with torpedo attacks.
For instance, in 2007 HMCS Corner Brook, a Canadian diesel-electric submarine “sunk” UK’s Illustrious during an exercise in the Atlantic.
Image credit: U.S. Navy
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/10471d1b74f0e12becba450f7d09a678
http://www.news.com.au/world/us-supe...1afab777d91ae4 (http://www.news.com.au/world/us-supercarrier-sunk-by-french-submarine-in-wargames/news-story/f6b4b584359010e6301afab777d91ae4)
US supercarrier ‘sunk’ by French submarine in wargames
March 6, 201510:55am
Unexpected victor ... The 30-year-old French nucler powered attack submarine Saphir. Source: Wikipedia
Jamie SeidelNews Corp Australia Network
Email a friend
WITH a good submarine, a navy can do amazing things. Ask the French. They’ve just managed to “sink” a nuclear-powered US super carrier — and half its battle group.
The French Ministry of Defence has revealed one of its attack submarines pulled of an astounding upset during recent war-games in the North Atlantic.
The Aviationist blog spotted an article on the French defence force’s website — quickly withdrawn — which told how one of their submarines, the “Saphir” tackled the might of the United States’ navy off the coast of Florida.
Formidable force ... The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt with a protecive force of cruisers, destroyers and frigates. A recent exercise saw this expansive, and expensive, defence force bypassed by a French submarine. Source: USN
Formidable force ... The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt with a protecive force of cruisers, destroyers and frigates. A recent exercise saw this expansive, and expensive, defence force bypassed by a French submarine. Source: USNSource:Supplied
At the core of the surface force was the enormous aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt and its powerful strike wing of 90 combat aircraft and helicopters.
Clustered protectively about it was several advanced cruisers and destroyers, and its own guardian submarine.
DONE DEAL? Japan a reluctant ‘favoured’ submarine supplier
In one element of the war games, the Saphir was tasked with the role of being the “bad guy”.
It’s mission: To seek, locate and exterminate the US naval force.
The exact details of how it achieved this embarrassing outcome is not known.
Fallout ... The USS Theodore Roosevelt undergoing shock testing during sea trials in 1987. Source: USN
Fallout ... The USS Theodore Roosevelt undergoing shock testing during sea trials in 1987. Source: USNSource:Supplied
Somehow, the French submarine must have been able to slip between the defensive sensor patchwork of patrol aircraft, helicopters, warships and submarines to line up a shot on the $13 billion monstrosity.
SUB CONTROVERSY: Navy boss sunk by Wikipedia
There she lurked as a fictitious political crisis evolved in the world above.
On the final day of the exercise, the order finaly came.
Sink the Theodore Roosevelt.
This 30-year-old Saphir proceeded to do. Along with most of the escorting warships.
Silent killer ... The French nuclear-powered attack submarine Saphir. Source: Wikipedia
Silent killer ... The French nuclear-powered attack submarine Saphir. Source: WikipediaSource:Supplied
The outcome of such war-games are usually kept a close secret. Not only does a result such as the above have the potential to be politically embarrassing for the losing side, it also exposes the existence of weaknesses any future enemy may exploit.
But rumours abound of similar significant victories by minor nations against the titanic icons of America’s naval might.
Both aircraft carriers and submarines are facing increased scrutiny as to their role in future defence forces.
Both are immensely expensive. Both project immense power.
But their abilities to survive a modern hi-tech battlefield with ever increasing enhancements in sensors and weapons has been called to question in recent years.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...ier-group.html (http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/162488/how-a-30_year-old-french-sub-sank-a-us-carrier-group.html)
30-Year Old French Sub Sinks US Carrier Group
(Source: compiled by Defense-Aerospace.com; published April 7, 2015)
PARIS --- The French Ministry of Defence has deleted from its website a news story relating how one of its nuclear-powered attack submarines, Saphir penetrated a US Navy carrier group and fictitiously “sank” the US Navy aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt as well as several of its surface escorts (Ticonderoga-class cruisers and Arleigh Burke-class destroyers).
The deletion was not acknowledged, and simply implemented by replacing the original story by an error page. SAVE FACE FOR US NAVY LAH
The original French navy report on the exercise was posted on March 4, 2015 (above) and deleted shortly afterwards; the link now points to an error page (below). Screen copies made on April 7.
The deletion was noted at the time by several blogs, but has only now come to our attention.
On March 6, the Russian television website RT also reported that “French delete evidence US carrier was 'sunk' by sub in drill” It reported that “A major vulnerability that allowed French submarine to “sink” aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt and most of its escort during drills was apparently revealed by the French Navy and Defense Ministry in blogposts that were quickly wiped out.
“Both the French Defense Ministry and the Navy released and then quickly deleted a news post entitled “Le SNA Saphir en entraînement avec l’US Navy au large de la Floride” (“The SNA Sapphire in training with the US Navy off the coast of Florida”) that praised the 34-year-old French nuclear submarine’s success in “sinking” the American aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt along with best part of its escort.”
The original story, however, was copied by a French defense blog, and is still available here:
This is the relevant paragraph, in French, followed by our translation:
Dans une seconde phase, le Saphir, était intégré aux forces ennemies et avait pour mission de localiser le porte-avions Theodore Roosevelt ainsi que les autres bâtiments de la force navale amie et de se tenir prêt à l’attaque. La situation politique se dégradant de jour en jour, le Saphir s’est glissé discrètement au cœur de l’écran formé par les frégates américaines protégeant le porte-avions, tout en évitant la contre-détection des moyens aériens omniprésents. Au matin du dernier jour, l’ordre de feu était enfin donné, permettant au Saphir de couler fictivement le Theodore Roosevelt et la majeure partie de son escorte.
TRANSLATION:
During the second phase, the Saphir was integrated with “enemy” forces, and its mission as to find the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt as well as the other ships of its task force, and to remain on standby to attack. As the political situation [of the exercise scenario] was worsening from day to day, Saphir covertly entered the screen of American frigates protecting the aircraft carrier, and avoided detection by the pervasive aircraft assets. On the morning of the final day, the firing order finally arrived, allowing Saphir to fictitiously sink the Theodore Roosevelt and the greater part of its escort ships.
It is obviously not to the credit of the US Navy that a 30-year old submarine was able to penetrate one of its carrier groups and to sink both carrier and most of its escort vessels, which not only failed to detect its approach, but also failed to attack it once it made its presence known by sinking the carrier.
In fact, given the claims made by US Navy chiefs about their ships’ effectiveness, and the huge sums invested in carrier groups on the strength of these claims, they deserve to be publicly embarrassed, and to be forced to explain this latest failure.
Because, in fact, this is not the first time a foreign submarine “sinks” a US Navy carrier during an exercise. In 2004, the US Navy leased a Swedish Navy submarine, the Gotland, for one year of dissimilar training, and got more than t bargained for. In fact, as reported by the Foxtrot Alpha blog,
“The Gotland virtually "sank" many US nuclear fast attack subs, destroyers, frigates, cruisers and even made it into the 'red zone' beyond the last ring of anti-submarine defenses within a carrier strike group. Although it was rumored she got many simulated shots off on various US super-carriers, one large-scale training exercise in particular with the then brand new USS Ronald Reagan ended with the little sub making multiple attack runs on the super-carrier, before slithering away without ever being detected.”
Although the French MoD diplomatically tried to limit the embarrassment to the US Navy, the bigger question remains, and is likely to further fuel the legitimate debate in the United States as to the cost and the true effectiveness of US Navy carriers.
These are already threatened by the emergence of Chinese “carrier-killer” missiles as well as more powerful anti-ship missiles, such as the Indian-Russian supersonic BrahMos missile.
-ends-
Click here to view the whole thread at www.sammyboy.com (http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?224026-US-nuke-carrier-and-other-battleships-in-a-war-game-sunk-by-a-30-year-old-Fench-sub&goto=newpost).